Time for an honest discussion: FSLABS/FBW/FENIX

[tangerine 148]

37 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

You need to listen to the latest interview by Randazzo for PMDG. Randazzo said the flight model of the MSFS PMDG 737 is better than the P3D PMDG 737: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sG5IiTlD3Y&t=1891s

 

Yea...  I don't think he will say it the other way around.

Even tho MSFS release to XBOX brought in a lot of new people,

It's actually a really step down for those guys who wants to hardcore as much as they can, Microsoft has to keep the balance for PC and Consoles.

I'm saying this as a user of MSFS/XP11, so no hate at all, just want both simulators to keep improving. But as I developer, these kinds of moves (Open up to new audiences) will come with a lot of shortcomings.
 

Edited April 10, 2022 by tangerine

[jcomm 5,943]

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

You need to listen to the latest interview by Randazzo for PMDG. Randazzo said the flight model of the MSFS PMDG 737 is better than the P3D PMDG 737: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sG5IiTlD3Y&t=1891s

 

Thx abrams, I am aware of what Robert said... No comments ... 

[omarsmak30 4,068]

51 minutes ago, AGuther said:

That's the reason why I created a request for MS/Asobo to support more control surfaces and to be able to control them individually (https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/idea/5779/proposal-to-support-individual-control-surfaces-fo.html). I think that should be the way to go, fix the flight model of the sim (so all can benefit from it) and not to create workarounds.

That’s actually a great idea, kinda of sad that they don’t have the resources to work on it. I hope they will change their mind with enough pressure.

[Ricardo41 5,957]

14 hours ago, Chapstick said:

FBW is free so why not just try it?

Because it's Avsim, I mean, FbW could be sending out $100 cheques with their airplane and avsimmers would be wriging their hands.

[Ricardo41 5,957]

14 hours ago, Chapstick said:

FBW is free so why not just try it?

double post. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Ricardo41

[omarsmak30 4,068]

6 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Because it's Avsim, I mean, FbW could be sending out $100 cheques with their airplane and avsimmers would be wriging their hands.

To be honest never understood why the OP overthinking this. I mean is free and it costs nothing, not sure why would someone gives himself headache try to compare something that cost nothing and lose nothing to just try it 🤔

[AGuther 187]

1 hour ago, Rusty said:

Thanks all some great answers, yes @jcomm lets see when PMDG/FENIX arrive what the state of the depth will be.

@abrams_tank thanks for the interview link!

@AGuther Thanks for the detailed response also! The thing with FENIX is that it runs with PROSIM in the background which is used on some Level D simulators (real world) or fixed based ones, so you can be sure  the depth and fidelity of the systems will be there. How it is packaged and presented in MSFS however remains to be seen. But I know people like Blackbox744 and others are on the BETA so we should be having some good inputs! 

Are you really sure about the Level-D sims and ProSim? Where is this info from?

Level-D sims I’m aware of are based on GO5 from Airbus and this is not only SW, it’s also hardware and by the way even includes the real flight control computers…

[Daytona125 225]

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

You need to listen to the latest interview by Randazzo for PMDG. Randazzo said the flight model of the MSFS PMDG 737 is better than the P3D PMDG 737: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sG5IiTlD3Y&t=1891s

 

A very informative interview. But. Don't forget Randazzo has been hyping up this plane for MSFS for well over a year now. Unfortunately, Randazzo is just a little biased, his job after all is to sell this new plane. He is not going to come out and say anything bad about MSFS, he'd be crazy to...

[abrams_tank 7,426]

2 hours ago, AGuther said:

 That's the reason why I created a request for MS/Asobo to support more control surfaces and to be able to control them individually (https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/idea/5779/proposal-to-support-individual-control-surfaces-fo.html). I think that should be the way to go, fix the flight model of the sim (so all can benefit from it) and not to create workarounds.

 

If you post this as a topic to be upvoted at the next Twitch Q&A, or as a wishlist item that we can vote on, let us know the link and I would be glad to upvote this to get Microsoft/Asobo's attention.

[lwt1971 7,424]

My advice, just stick to stock MSFS  + FBW A320 for now... and soon (i.e. by summer), a lot of high fidelity payware jets will be available including the Fenix A320, PMDG 737, Maddog MD80, JustFlight Bae 146, maybe the Inibuilds A310... Those, along with some of the new excellent GA aircraft I think will more than put to rest the tiresome talking points, that MSFS's flight model and aerodynamics are sub-par and this and that.  MSFS already excels in the world/weather/etc simulation far far better than other sims, and IMHO will remain that way even after certain other sims release their new version(s) in an attempt to catch up in this area.  So the only remaining "unknown" to be answered is if MSFS's core platform and flight-model/aerodynamics enables realistic high fidelity aircraft, provided they are designed and implemented by *competent* developers ... IMHO, that question is already put to rest given the few examples of high fidelity aircraft that are already out, but of course proof will be in the pudding once all these birds are available for everyone to evaluate.

And while on the "in my opinion" vein :), I'll just quite frankly say that no other sim in its current or stated upcoming form even begins to compel me like MSFS does. And I'm a flight simming old timer from the days of Sublogic on Commodore 64 and then Flight Unlimited and beyond :). It's MSFS that got me interested in flight simming again recently. And let me be clear, it's not because I have anything against other sims, it's just that MSFS sets the bar to a different league (again, IMHO).  I'll more than happily switch or co-use other sims once they start to compel again.

And ya, as was stated a few times here and on other threads, a competent development house with a track record like PMDG speaking glowingly of MSFS's core flight model and aerodynamics speaks volumes more to me, try as detractors might to downplay it :) ... i.e: here https://youtu.be/6sG5IiTlD3Y?t=1673 , and here https://youtu.be/6sG5IiTlD3Y?t=1891 (regardless of increasing interest for their upcoming product, Rob just would not go about saying this stuff if they didn't truly feel that way, given their high standards in all the aircraft they've released before). PMDG's opinions on MSFS's core platform are just the latest, other expert and competent developers like Working Title, Milviz, Aamir (Fenix), FBW, and others have also chimed in about MSFS's core technologies that you can try to dig up via search on this forum.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by lwt1971

[abrams_tank 7,426]

Just now, lwt1971 said:

 it's just that MSFS sets the bar to a different league (again, IMHO).  I'll more than happily switch or co-use other sims once they start to compel again.
 

Yup, I agree. I am willing to jump ship to another flight simulator, if that simulator in another league compared to MSFS, and the price is reasonable (ie. I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars purchasing add-ons to bring my flight sim up to a basic graphics level).  But at the moment, MSFS is in an entirely different league.  

[omarsmak30 4,068]

1 hour ago, Daytona125 said:

A very informative interview. But. Don't forget Randazzo has been hyping up this plane for MSFS for well over a year now. Unfortunately, Randazzo is just a little biased, his job after all is to sell this new plane. He is not going to come out and say anything bad about MSFS, he'd be crazy to...

Yeah just the same like the "other" 3PD who are invested in the other sims who can't talk bad about their invested sims.

[DD_Arthur 1,068]

3 hours ago, tangerine said:

 But as I developer, these kinds of moves (Open up to new audiences) will come with a lot of shortcomings.

? What a bizarre thing for a “developer” to say....

[regis9 4,027]

I think it comes down to how willing you are to keep flying in P3D.  I absolutely loved the FSLabs airbuses, my favourite aircraft in P3D to the point that I invested in some Skalarki hardware to use with them.  But once I started playing around in MSFS I lost pretty much all interest in flying / maintaining my P3D installation. 

The FBW Airbus is very well done and constantly improving, but of course it’s not (yet) near the level of fidelity and detail of the FSLabs airbuses.  

if you’re ok to keep flying in P3D you’ll want to keep flying FSLabs.  But as others have mentioned, FBW is free so why not give it a try?  It flies perfectly well from A to B and is a great way to do some airliner ops in MSFS.

Fenix…looks amazing and I can’t wait for it to be released.  I don’t think any of us are in a position to make a comparison to FSLabs yet in terms of fidelity though.

[tangerine 148]

23 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

? What a bizarre thing for a “developer” to say....

Maybe you will understand what I am talking about without been disrespectful.

MS going on both platforms (PC and Console) was an amazing choice marketing wise (money), but the worst one for those who want hardcore stuff.

We are all going to be tied to Xbox limitations, no matter what, splitting development on two different versions is a nightmare, and 2 years after release, I do not think they are willing to take that path.

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by tangerine