Are clouds the best ever now? I'm impressed.

[irocx 293]

14 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Because they've more than likely got a license agreement with Meteoblue, in fact I'd put money on this being the stumbling block and refusal of Asobo/MS to fully open up the WC (which is fair enough, it's their game and their license/business deals).

Agreed, but the license agreement would be for the data, I presume.  What prevents a requirement for any 3rd party from utilizing that data source?  They have partnered with Working Title to code avionics, yet likely have an agreement with Garmin. 

It's the programming and the translation of that data to the sim where I would hope that they would seek outside collaboration, particularly when internal resources and "bandwidth" are already being taxed, according to Jorg.

They seem to continually outsource very specific niche scenery elements and aircraft development - how about something on a grander scale that would truly advance the sim for everyone?

Edited June 21, 2022 by irocx

[Krakin 5,837]

Anyone has pics of when MSFS had more diverse cloud types? I know for a fact that it never had cirrus clouds from the beginning and that had to do with the limitations of the tech they're currently using. According to Seb, they were trying to find a way to stretch out the clouds into thin layers.

[MarcG 3,031]

23 minutes ago, irocx said:

Agreed, but the license agreement would be for the data, I presume.  What prevents a requirement for any 3rd party from utilizing that data source?  They have partnered with Working Title to code avionics, yet likely have an agreement with Garmin. 

It's the programming and the translation of that data to the sim where I would hope that they would seek outside collaboration, particularly when internal resources and "bandwidth" are already being taxed, according to Jorg.

They seem to continually outsource very specific niche scenery elements and aircraft development - how about something on a grander scale that would truly advance the sim for everyone?

I agree with you, unfortunately only Asobo/MS can answer that and they've effectively ignored this subject in past Q&As and/or batted it off with a non descript response from what I've heard/read.

There's more than likely some deeper license stuff that of course we'll never be privy too, so it'll forever be a mystery.

[Oliver Ooi 85]

11 hours ago, Silicus said:

In reality there are many more cloud types dependent on altitude.

High clouds Cirrus

Cirrostratus

Cirrocumulus

Middle clouds Altostratus

Altocumulus

Low clouds Stratus

Stratocumulus

Nimbostratus

Clouds with vertical development Cumulus

Cumulonimbus

It is just a lazy implementation of clouds at this point. MSFS/Asobo did many things right, but other things not so much...

In their Feature Discovery Series Episode 2: Weather released two years ago, they said the system natively support all cloud types. So.. yes, we will eventually get more types of cloud.

[CFIJose 5,485]

8 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Your pictures illustrate the issue - cumulus, cumulus, cumulus!

I'll agree with most simmers MSFS can generate some lovely skies when those skies just contain cumulus.  I start every flight with Live Weather, but often switch to Rex Weatherforce because I know I will see multi layers of different cloud types.  Of course I then get a global cloud layer, but often this is more satisfying than a poor live weather depiction with local weather.

Every now and then Live Weather throws up a cloud other than cumulus that looks good. I have seen some very high cirrus type clouds, so I am hopeful change is coming.

From the beginning we did not get what we were initially promised from ASOBO. I expected some cloud variations, especially TCBs, because that's what was promoted in the early stages. The live weather feature has been unreliable (sometimes it works & sometimes it doesn't.) I really appreciate their efforts and feel that it's the best experience I've ever had with a flight sim, even with just cumulus & cirrus clouds.

I never embraced REX WF. Unless I can get a variety of clouds, smooth transitions like I get with the default live weather feature, excellent performance, and stability, it's just not worth paying extra for an add-on that does not solve the inherent problems I just discussed.

[CFIJose 5,485]

3 hours ago, Oliver Ooi said:

In their Feature Discovery Series Episode 2: Weather released two years ago, they said the system natively support all cloud types. So.. yes, we will eventually get more types of cloud.

This was promised and two years later still no delivery. Lots of hype!

[Tom_L 558]

2 hours ago, Oliver Ooi said:

Feature Discovery Series Episode 2

As I see it, after SU5 and SU7 THAT feature video is obsolete in large parts, as

- SU5 changed large aspects of the lighting covered in the first part of the video for performance reasons (and to squeeze into XBox)

- 3D volumetric fog has never been properly implemented, all I have seen was low cloud layers instead of fog

- 32 layers of clouds were never present in the sim, at least the most I have seen was around 3

- "natural forming and dissipating" of the clouds is definitely gone after METAR implementation, otherwise we would not encounter sudden weather changes. And as that is being presented as a prerequisite for the "native support of all cloud types", it is probably one of the reasons for the "cumulus only" generic skies since SU7.

- "evolving density inside the clouds" has been sacrificed for performance with SU5, now it's more or less a uniform grey. The sun bleeding through cloud layers is also caused by those changes they made.

- Humidity has never been properly implemented with Live weather, as the sim struggles with the correct depiction of visibility from the beginning

- cold fronts are not discernable anymore, as locally applied METAR synthesis interferes with the globally simulated weather (if that is still present in the first place)

- Wind gusts have been totally cancelled in Live weather due to user complaints in favour of a robotic, always steady wind blowing exactly as reported in the METAR (but not taking MagVar into account)

 

The way I see it, MSFS started promising with a revolutionary Live weather system based on weather simulation data, which was very accurate on a large scale but unfortunately failed to meet the expectation of many users to be exactly as they would see outside their windows. The result was ASOBO trying to "integrate" METAR data into their weather simulation. This integration failed, so that today we more or less have locally synthesized weather based on METAR reports and thus are back to where we were since the old days - with the difference of expierienced third parties having done so for a long time being shut out by Microsoft. SU10 is said to bring some improvements, but unfortunately all we can expect is some tweaking here and there of a capable, but obviously crippled system.

 

[blueshark747 1,845]

32 Layers....Yea ok MS/Asobo🤣

[icewater5 181]

13 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I used active sky for years in P3D. You could select the number of cloud layers you wanted, and if you selected more than two or three different layers, the FPS would go into the dumpster for many people. I would imagine the same thing would happen with MSFS. 

Maybe i am missing a point, but i thought data streaming/cloud computing, or whatever its called,was to enable complex cloud layers. Because the hardware requirements are "offloaded" to the cloud system.. therefore better frame rates/performance.

Increasingly for the whole flight simulator system in general (ai traffic,pg and so on).

Edited June 21, 2022 by icewater5

[lwt1971 7,456]

6 hours ago, Krakin said:

Anyone has pics of when MSFS had more diverse cloud types? I know for a fact that it never had cirrus clouds from the beginning and that had to do with the limitations of the tech they're currently using. According to Seb, they were trying to find a way to stretch out the clouds into thin layers.

Yup would be good to see... I believe the current issue is only in live weather where the variety of clouds are not there and mostly cumulus? The core weather engine is capable of rendering various cloud types sounds like, or at least more than just cumulus.  So when using manual or user configured weather the clouds variety is better, is that what others are finding? Not sure if clouds types can be controlled via the visible or config file(s) settings, for manual weather that is.

Edited June 21, 2022 by lwt1971

[MrBitstFlyer 3,892]

2 hours ago, Tom_L said:

Wind gusts have been totally cancelled in Live weather due to user complaints in favour of a robotic, always steady wind blowing exactly as reported in the METAR (but not taking MagVar into account)

I agree with everything said in your post, especially this one. Although the overall experience with MSFS is great, every flight is made in the same smooth air.  Never does one have to fight the aircraft on approach in an airliner.  GA is a little more lively, but way less so than reality.

I really hope SU10 supplies a more lively atmosphere.  Many have pointed out XP12 will not have global satellite imagery, so will not interest them. One of the reasons I will buy it to run alongside MSFS is because the aircraft will be a handful in windy or poor weather conditions.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,892]

4 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

The core weather engine is capable of rendering various clouds types sounds like, or at least more than just cumulus

Yes, as demonstrated by RexWeatherforce.

[JRBarrett 3,121]

14 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Yes, as demonstrated by RexWeatherforce.

Indeed. Rex does not “create” the clouds. MSFS does not use pre-rendered textures for clouds as is done in FSX/P3D. The clouds are created dynamically by the sim’s rendering engine. Rex is only telling that rendering engine to put specific clouds in specific places, with specific parameters (height, thickeness, type). Same for visibility (as set by Rex). 

Rex demonstrates that the natives MSFS cloud rendering engine is certainly capable of creating more detail and variety of cloudscapes than we typically see in Live Weather. The question is why LW does not seem able to make use of that?

[177B 730]

I see 4 layers of clouds here and haze as well.

Pretty amazing IMHO.

I give ASOBO an A+ compared to any other sim.

 

[CFIJose 5,485]

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Yes, as demonstrated by RexWeatherforce.

Do you recommend REX WF?

Today, again, the live weather did not match the msfs metar. So I loaded my building storms theme. I like clouds!