5 minutes ago, Sethos said:

I quoted nothing, nor mentioned DLSS. I made a statement as a follow-up to an agnostic technology, i.e FSR which has nothing to do with DLSS, same with TAA, both which I specifically mentioned that run on all hardware. I just advocated for the implementation of motion vectors. 

OK, and yes, "FSR2" would be nice to have.

But I can think of so many better things that would be nicer to have Sidney, Ben and their team do first.

Like an overhaul to the VR API, better terrain autogen, improvements to the banking with water, mesh deformations for snow and sand, I wouldn't call any of these "essential", awesome yes, but literally anything I can think of they could spend their time on I would prefer to see before a 10% improvement in performance using an 8K screen, and I still dont think that is essential for anyone. 

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

OK, and yes, "FSR2" would be nice to have.

But I can think of so many better things that would be nicer to have Sidney, Ben and their team do first.

Like an overhaul to the VR API, better terrain autogen, improvements to the banking with water, mesh deformations for snow and sand, I wouldn't call any of these "essential", awesome yes, but literally anything I can think of they could spend their time on I would prefer to see before a 10% improvement in performance using an 8K screen, and I still dont think that is essential for anyone. 

TAA has nothing to do with performance improvement, that has to do with eliminating that awful aliasing and shimmering which has a huge impact on the visual experience, hence why every modern game and simulator uses it. Though, Improving performance across the board with something like FSR 2+ also allows for improvements in other visual departments, giving us greater overhead. So now we're just down to what you personally prefer and I certainly don't care about some of those, especially not VR which is a tiny subsets of users. So it'll just become a pedantic, subjective debate of what we find essential. 

2 minutes ago, Sethos said:

awful aliasing and shimmering

could you give me an example, e.g. a timestamp in this

 

Anyone else noticing that wingflex is completely borked?

1 hour ago, Baber20 said:

Anyone else noticing that wingflex is completely borked?

Yes, it looks broken.

Edited October 8, 20223 yr by torfih

11 hours ago, mSparks said:

could you give me an example, e.g. a timestamp in this

mSparks, you need to stop being so obtuse, you want me to point out aliasing for you in a blurry highly compressed YouTube video of a VR session, aliasing that is as old as 3D graphics itself? 

Anyone with actual functioning eyes can start up X-Plane 12 and find shimmering and aliased edges galore, because FXAA and MSAA just isn't effective enough. 

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by Sethos

Just now, Sethos said:

mSparks, you need to stop being so obtuse, you want me to point out aliasing for you in a YouTube video, aliasing that is as old as 3D graphics itself?

I know what aliasing and shimmering are.

I just haven't seen them in xp12 since they fixed the performance of setting the anti aliasing slider to max....

I dont think its obtuse to ask for some kind of visual reference of what you are talking about, and why you think it is more important than say:

 

4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I know what aliasing and shimmering are.

I just haven't seen them in xp12 since they fixed the performance of setting the anti aliasing slider to max....

1. Then I'm afraid your eyesight just isn't up to snuff and 2. anti-aliasing slider to max has a much, much higher performance impact than TAA, the very thing we're trying to avoid. SSAA in X-Plane 11 was also effective but WAY too performance intensive, that's not an argument for not implementing it. If you actually knew anything about shimmering and aliasing, you wouldn't try to be as disingenuous to link a blurry, compressed YouTube video and ask people to point it out. 

And no, I don't find footprints in the sand more important than a stable, clean image and good performance whilst having that. 

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by Sethos

3 minutes ago, Sethos said:

, much higher performance impact than TAA

well, we wouldnt actually know that until they tried it, but the development time impact would be very real.

4 minutes ago, Sethos said:

don't find footprints

not footprints, its what mesh deformation looks like.

e.g. would give you fully 3D tracks landing in the sand and snow and mud.

similar to we get now in XP12 when you land in water.

8 minutes ago, Sethos said:

wouldn't try to be as disingenuous to link a blurry, compressed YouTube video and ask people to point it out. 

you need to enable HD in youtube settings maybe?

like, there are still aliasing issues for sure, but awful shimmering? put up or shut up tbh...

9 minutes ago, mSparks said:

well, we wouldnt actually know that until they tried it, but the development time impact would be very real.

not footprints, its what mesh deformation looks like.

e.g. would give you fully 3D tracks landing in the sand and snow and mud.

similar to we get now in XP12 when you land in water.

you need to enable HD in youtube settings maybe?

like, there are still aliasing issues for sure, but awful shimmering? put up or shut up tbh...

Yes, things take development time, so does all the other irrelevant stuff you want. Most people wouldn't give a flying hoot about VR, because it's such a tiny, tiny subset of users who fly with VR. 100% of my landings are on a runway, I don't need the mud to deform, completely pointless. That's why we can always have this inane debate about priorities. However, there's an argument to be had when literally every game and sim under the sun these days, except X-Plane, decided to implement motion vectors in order to use technologies like TAA, because it has already become the de facto industry standard in anti-aliasing, because it's so effective at eliminating both shimmering and aliasing. 

And HD was enabled, 1080p/60. Will never help when it's compressed by YouTube and the video is of a blurry VR session turned into a 2D screen video. That image is very, very blurry compared to a native resolution direct capture. 

I don't need to put up anything, because nothing will ever convince you, I know you by now Mr. Sparks 🙂 I'll just keep requesting and wish for them to implement motion vectors, because that would solve both issues, see them or not. Plus, shimmering is the hardest one to demonstrate as it requires motion and motion requires video and video compression tends to eliminate a lot of the shimmering you see natively. 

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by Sethos

8 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Most people wouldn't give a flying hoot about VR, because it's such a tiny, tiny subset of users who fly with VR.

Well, considering the visual fidelity of VR is above and beyond anything you can get with an 8K display or even a projector. 

By that logic no one cares what it looks like, least of all AA issues....

11 minutes ago, Sethos said:

don't need to put up anything, because nothing will ever convince you, I know you by now Mr. Sparks 🙂

simply not true.

I can very easily be convinced by showing/seeing some actual evidence of a claim. 

Unsubstantiated hyperbole however... Only thing fun about that is watching people tie themselves up in knots when they get called out for it.

ok so lets check some taa screenshots..

yes, excellent.. every sedan should look like it has 16 wheels...

pllssse gimme gimme gimme...

4 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Well, considering the visual fidelity of VR is above and beyond anything you can get with an 8K display or even a projector. 

By that logic no one cares what it looks like, least of all AA issues....

simply not true.

I can very easily be convinced by showing/seeing some actual evidence of a claim. 

Unsubstantiated hyperbole however... Only thing fun about that is watching people tie themselves up in knots when they get called out for it.

ok so lets check some taa screenshots..

yes, excellent.. every sedan should look like it has 16 wheels...

pllssse gimme gimme gimme...

Yeah, keep telling yourself that you're getting a crisp 8K experience with VR. Not sure what that has to do with anything in this conversation. 

Ah yes, finding the worst example of TAA ghosting and then sarcastically providing that as your counter-argument, classic mSparks. I'm done, you feel free to counter anything you like, making this section unbearable as always. 

actually, I think mSparks has a point here, in his own obnoxious view of the world.

The engine with FSR is as it is at the moment, implementing vectoring will need another big overhaul, adding another couple of months or years.
At the moment they need to focus on obvious bugs and improvements in what they have currently have.

LR already made it clear that this is something they plan to look into in the future. And before you say this is 2022, they need to implement it now, 
this is not how things works. X-Plane 12 has been years in the planning, already in XP11 they implemented Vulkan, XP12 is building on that foundation
to improve lighting, performance, reflections, ... while keeping the performance.

For sure this is not working for everybody 100% of the time, but this is why we have the beta right now.

12 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Yeah, keep telling yourself that you're getting a crisp 8K experience with VR. Not sure what that has to do with anything in this conversation. 

Ah yes, finding the worst example of TAA ghosting and then sarcastically providing that as your counter-argument, classic mSparks. I'm done, you feel free to counter anything you like, making this section unbearable as always. 

Now I know what we are talking about  SteamVR already tried something similar:

basically a complete waste of developer time so far.

as for "smooth 8k".

seriously, there is just no comparison between flat 2D no matter what the resolution and VR, especially in flight sim.

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by mSparks

MSAA in 2022 is a joke. TAA should be a bare minimum. Also whoever believes that Xplane 12 doesn't sufffer for aliasing and shimmering issues needs an eye doctor. There is also this issue of flickering at cruise altitude that gives eye cancer.