Tyler Hoover, an auto enthusiast and reviewer on Youtube, just posted another video discussing the Ford Lightning EV.

 

Ford recommends that you not use the heater when charging during cold weather, so if you're out and about and need to charge you'll have to wait in the truck with no heat for 30+ minutes.

Hopefully, in the near future, the battery technology will improve significantly from what it is today.

Dave

 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by charliearon
embed video

I was looking at getting into this vehicle! Cold weather is the serious downfall of all electric vehicles right now. Explored various electric vehicles over the past summer. In Canada, if you want a new EV, the wait time is crazy long. Over a year for some manufacturers!

4 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Looks like the range is cut in half in 30F(-1C) weather.

 

What?! How is that even possible? My Kona looses about 40% of its roughly 500km range when it is -30C. 

7 hours ago, Swe_Richard said:

What?! How is that even possible? My Kona looses about 40% of its roughly 500km range when it is -30C. 

 

Kona's are good cars. And pretty accurate regarding the manufactures range claims.

Loss of range in low temps varies dependent on model. The thermal management system for example and whether they have heat pumps. Ford Lightning is notorious for being the worst for winter range. 

The below percentages aren't super accurate of course, as they are based on the cars software. But they do demonstrate that the majority of cars with decent thermal management systems and heat pumps don't suffer anything like the Ford Lightnings loss of range. 

 

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by martin-w

https://insideevs.com/news/452464/tesla-model-y-heat-pump-system-details/

Quote

 

Tesla Model Y Heat Pump Details Infrequently Discussed By The Media

Model Y is a quantum jump

The addition of the heat pump, the liquid-cooled condenser loop, and the 8-way octovalve opens up many ways of moving heat. The patent actually discusses a total of 12 heating modes and 3 cooling modes. The system even uses the thermal mass of the battery to store heat. Then, the battery can be used as a heat source as we draw down the thermal energy stored in the pack.

 

 

 

Nice that all Tesla patents are open source too. The tech is available for anyone to copy.

 

 

Quote

 

Tesla Model Y Winter Range

Model or Trim: Long Range AWD
Observed Range at 20-30F: 98% of Original EPA Range
Observed Range at 70F: 97% of Original EPA Range

Whereas the Model 3 heating system was known to use waste heat from the motor only to warm the battery itself, the Model Y uses a more sophisticated heat pump system to help regulate temperatures without drawing on the high voltage battery. The patented Model Y heating system alludes to “a total of 12 heating modes and 3 cooling modes. The system even uses the thermal mass of the battery to store heat. Then, the battery can be used as a heat source as we draw down the thermal energy stored in the pack.” 

‍

If the thermodynamic details of this sound interesting, we recommend reading more about how the Model Y is changing the game on EV heating. 

The observed winter range loss for the Model Y is based on several winter range experiments by citizen scientists. We suggest a more limited range loss than many others to account for the efficiency gained by preconditioning the car and using cabin heaters conservatively.

 

 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by martin-w

I'm holding off on an EV until I see what happens to trade-in values. I have my doubts. I could be wrong.

4 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

I'm holding off on an EV until I see what happens to trade-in values. I have my doubts. I could be wrong.

Get one of these, then you won't need to worry too much about depreciation.

EIGHT GRAND!? 👀 I really can't see my wife getting in that even to go round the corner.

It certainly would be a "head turner" but perhaps not for the usual reason.
Not too hard to find in the supermarket car park either, there is not likely to
be another one.
Mind you, it might be hidden behind a shopping trolly.

Citroen could always offer complimentary paper bags with eye holes to mitigate
the pointing fingers and laughter that will follow it wherever it goes.

 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by Reader

How much does speed affect range.  At what speed are the advertised ranges calculated?

For instance; If I am going to drive to Albuquerque 200 miles (320km) from Roswell at the legal speed limit of 70mph (110kph) will I get the advertised range?  If not, how much would it drop?  

Right now with a full tank of gasoline (petrol) I can drive to Albuquerque.  Drive around town to visit several stores and drive back to Roswell and still have fuel left in the tank.

For people who live in the Southwest where towns are miles apart range becomes an important factor.  And so does charging time.   

Noel

 

I can see Ron's wife in an Aptera. 1,000 mile range if you live somewhere sunny. 😽 Cats drive them on their planet all the time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Lightyear is the real shocker though, if you have loads of dosh. 70KM of range just from the sun, per day, if reasonably sunny. 

General

Practical range

1,000+ km driving range between two charging moments⁽¹⁾

https://www.google.com/search?q=lightyear+range&oq=Lightyear+range&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j0i22i30l2j0i15i22i30l2j0i22i30l5.3639j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

How much does speed affect range.  At what speed are the advertised ranges calculated?

 

WLTP is never accurate, its based on ideal conditions and slow speed.

Realistically for the Model Y for example...

City - Mild Weather *	635 km
Highway - Mild Weather *	405 km
Combined - Mild Weather *	505 km

 

The model Y is a nice car. Uses BYD Blade batteries now. BYD claim the pack can be punctured without a fire resulting, very fire resistant. And with a 500.000 mile warranty. 3000 cycles, so easily outlasts the car itself, what's that, if you charge once per week, something like 57 years. Blade batteries passed tests involving being penetrated crushed bent etc. 

https://en.byd.com/news/byds-new-blade-battery-set-to-redefine-ev-safety-standards/

In regard to range... obviously if you are zooming down the motorway at top speed like a crazy thing the electrons will be freaking out. But when you are in reasonable temps, in city traffic the electrons are happy and having  a party. Its the opposite to gas cars, where steady speed on the motorway is more economical than city driving.

Longest range BEV currently is the Lucid Air at 520 miles. And that's not an exaggerated WLTP range either. The company make batteries for Formula E, so they know their stuff. 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Its the opposite to gas cars, where steady speed on the motorway is more economical than city driving.

Actually, hybrids get the best mileage in city traffic.  When I am in my Prius and stop at a stop light the engine stops.  Same in stop and go traffic.  And if you are sane and start slowly when the light turns green the battery will power you up to the speed limit (35mph).

Sometimes I can drive the 7 miles from WalMart to my house without the gasoline engine starting at all.

I have gauge on my instrument panel that shows how the power is being distributed.  When the engine is cold it shows the gasoline engine both charging the battery and driving the wheels.  Then it shows both the gasoline engine and the battery driving the wheels.  Then as I slow down for stop sign the engine turns off and the wheels are charging the battery.  After a few blocks I am driving with the battery alone.

There is technique to driving a hybrid.  When I am running with the gasoline engine and the battery is charged if I accelerate a bit and then take my foot off the accelerator pedal for a moment the gasoline engine will stop and the battery takes over.

The seasonal temperature affects my gasoline mileage.  In the summer I get close to 50MPG.  In the winter it drops to about 40MPG.

Noel

Kilometres always sound better than miles.

Cost of some nice EVs:

Tesla Model Y - $65,900

Audi E-tron - $67,500

BMW i series - start at $70,900

Hyundai Kona - $34,000, gasoline model is $23,000

The point is that they are very expensive compared to gasoline vehicles.  Of course, if one doesn't own a vehicle then this is a moot point, but for most people it's an issue.

There's no question that over time an EV owner will save money on gasoline, but you must also factor in that these savings depend on 1)how much you drive, and 2)how much you spend on electricity.

I haven't even factored in the battery replacement cost after 10 years or so.

Lastly, there's the time cost, IE having to wait for an available charging station and then waiting around 30 minutes or an hour for the battery to charge.

I think I'll wait quite a while before I even think about switching to an EV.  Maybe I'll be forced to, though, if some folks get their way.  Once everyone has been forced to buy an EV, then they'll impose a large excise tax on electricity, since of course they must compensate for the money they lose from much lower gasoline and diesel tax revenue, so in the end I won't save a dime.

Welcome to the fourth turning and soon-to-come dystopia.

Dave