On 12/7/2022 at 8:18 AM, birdguy said:

How much does speed affect range. 

It depends on the speed we are talking about and it depends on the car we are talking about. At about 70 mph Tesla's seem to do about 10-15% worse than their EPA range estimates in otherwise optimal conditions.

On 12/7/2022 at 8:18 AM, birdguy said:

 At what speed are the advertised ranges calculated?

Range is calculated be it WLTP, EPA, etc based on established testing methods that don't necessarily reflect real world driving i.e. EPA highway speeds are unrealistically low among other things.

On 12/7/2022 at 8:18 AM, birdguy said:

For instance; If I am going to drive to Albuquerque 200 miles (320km) from Roswell at the legal speed limit of 70mph (110kph) will I get the advertised range?  If not, how much would it drop? 

Likely No. And again it depends on what car you are driving, how fast you are driving it, and what the other environmental factors are. Running that drive in a better route planner for my Tesla Model 3 LR, I show making it to Albuquerque with no issue at all and needed to charge for about 20 minutes there to make it back to Roswell.

On 12/7/2022 at 8:18 AM, birdguy said:

For people who live in the Southwest where towns are miles apart range becomes an important factor.  And so does charging time.  

That is where people need to do the research and figure out if it makes sense for them or not. I personally don't consider 20 minutes of charging on a 400 mile drive to be a burden especially when 95% of my regular driving involves never having to stop at a gas station.

22 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Apologies if this makes me sound like an word not allowed, but.....how do people with electric cars pay for the "fuel"? Do you have to enter your credit card details in one of those charging stations before you can connect it to your car?

I pay for my "fuel" the same way I pay for running my computer, television, refrigerator, etc. My electric utility bill. I've had my Tesla for 5 months now and have only charged it at home. For "public" charging yeah it depends. Here in the States, Tesla has a credit card on file for me. Given they have their on proprietary charging network, at a Tesla supercharger all I have to do is plug in my car. The supercharger knows the car belongs to me and would automatically bill my card on file.

Public charging varies a bit depending on the network, but essentially yes. Many have apps that you can store a credit card on and then via your phone you can tell it that I'm at charger 1A at this location and it is me that will be charging. Some have RFID cards for a network which essentially functions the same as the app method and others have credit card scanners much like a traditional gas pump (or some combination of the previous 3).

OK, next question.....

How much does it cost to fully charge an electric vehicle? Are they subject to the same draconian tax sledgehammer in the UK that petrol and diesel engine cars are? If not, then the government is going to be losing a rather large amount of revenue when we all switch to electric cars.

9 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

if not, then the government is going to be losing a rather large amount of revenue when we all switch to electric cars.

Do you really think that electric cars will get away 'tax free' once(if) they become the norm? I don't think so.

17 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I just think "the powers that be" need to slow down and thoughtfully consider what they're proposing and doing instead of just being reactionary as has happened so many times throughout human history.

There are times when they are worried that if it isn't done right now it will never get done.

 

17 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I say "yes", there is a better way.

Then tell us.

Noel

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

OK, next question.....

How much does it cost to fully charge an electric vehicle? Are they subject to the same draconian tax sledgehammer in the UK that petrol and diesel engine cars are? If not, then the government is going to be losing a rather large amount of revenue when we all switch to electric cars.

It depends on your method of charging and more importantly your location. Again speaking here in the U.S. the primary cost driver is going to be method of charging. My electric rate at home is significantly less than what I'd pay at a 3rd party charger. The secondary driver is going to be location. My electric rate is very different than someone in say California.

 

Here in the United States, many states (including mine) charge a fee to EV drivers to cover losses in gasoline (petrol) taxes.

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by MrNuke

National Grid's website states the following for UK energy production:

In 2020 renewable accounted for 43% of the UKs electricity production, not 60% as someone here claimed.  You can cherry pick certain months where it is higher, but the average is 43%.  In the last quarter of 2021 the contribution from renewables was 26% wind, 13% bioenergy, 2% solar, and 2% hydroelectric. 

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/how-much-uks-energy-renewable

Still, that's very good.  Moreover, nuclear power contributes 20% of the renewable energy.

The UK plans to be "net zero" by 2050, which is a reasonable goal.

Lastly, the average cost per KWh in the UK is 34p, and it's only that low because the govt. put a cap on the price using taxpayer subsidies.  Many other countries are doing the same thing or plan to.

By way of comparison, I pay 14c per KWh.

Clearly, renewable energy from solar and wind is much more expensive than energy from nuclear, coal, and natural gas.

Bottom line: it will be considerably more expensive to be "carbon neutral" once the powers that be force all electricity production to be from primarily wind and solar, and force everyone to drive only EVs which cost more than ICE vehicles.

Yes, the cost for renewables and EVs will likely come down over time, but it ain't there yet.

Thank goodness the US govt. is providing incentives to produce more nuclear power, as well as solar and wind.

Dave

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by dave2013

14 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Clearly, renewable energy from solar and wind is much more expensive than energy from nuclear, coal, and natural gas.

That'll upset a lot of people from a certain section of the population, SACRILEGE!

25 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

National Grid's website states the following for UK energy production:

In 2020 renewable accounted for 43% of the UKs electricity production, not 60% as someone here claimed.

 

Wrong year. Somebody.... said 1st quarter 2021. That's.... low carbon sources.

https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/08/01/uk-generation-mix-moves-increasingly-toward-renewables/

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by martin-w

Meanwhile...

https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/renewables-cheapest-form-power#:~:text=Renewables are the cheapest form,energy generation costs in 2022

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/renewables-cheapest-energy-source/

https://www.irena.org/News/pressreleases/2022/Jul/Renewable-Power-Remains-Cost-Competitive-amid-Fossil-Fuel-Crisis

https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/blog/is-renewable-energy-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels

"What is the cheapest source of renewable energy?

Solar was crowned as the cheapest source of energy in history in 2021 – closely followed by onshore and offshore wind – after it became more affordable than gas."

 

That's it from me in this thread. For personel reasons. Nit to mention that the thread has gone off track.

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Bottom line: it will be considerably more expensive to be "carbon neutral" once the powers that be force all electricity production to be from primarily wind and solar, and force everyone to drive only EVs which cost more than ICE vehicles.

 

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Thank goodness the US govt. is providing incentives to produce more nuclear power, as well as solar and wind.

Dave, on the one hand you say it will be more expensive to be carbon neutral once the powers that be force all electricity to come primarily from wind and solar and force everyone to drive EVs.

Then you say thank goodness the US govt. (one of the powers that be) is giving incentives to build nuclear power plants.

As a point of reference.

When I was Japan some 65 years ago I was able to call home over Christmas.  It cost me 15 dollars to talk to my folks for three minutes.  But just hearing their voices was worth it.  I was PFC making 65 dollars a month.

Today you can talk to anyone anywhere in the world for pennies.

If you were around back then Dave I can just hear you saying, "They are planning to put communications satellites in orbit and make us all use cell phones and the cost to make a phone call will be astronomical.

Time will tell Dave.  And optimism trumps pessimism most of the time.  I'm not planning on ever buying an EV.  I am now driving the last car I will probably ever own (barring accident).  But I am optimistic that most of the people here will be driving EVs with a range of a thousand miles and a charge time of 5 minutes by the time I turn 99 years old a decade from now.

Noel 

 

OK, we certainly do not need yet another contentious energy debate here.  The undesirable trend is that just about every EV discussion now goes straight back to another tedious debate on energy, carbon footprint, etc etc.

No more please.

Locked.