28 minutes ago, Jazz said:

I may have missed it but I don't think anyone said "most" were.

I can't give you an example because I don't keep a record of when I see one and as I previously mentioned it was something I got used to and learned to ignore a long time ago. I did encounter one recently though.

We are not just saying it to get put ourselves in a contrary postion to those that have not encountered or noticed it. What on earth would be the point?

1. Yes, you obviously missed the OP. Quote: "the localizer is offset where it should not be, or more importantly in almost 90% of sceneries, glideslope and PAPI are way off"

In my view "almost 90%" equals to "most". 🙂

2. A claim has to be proven. "What on earth would be the point?" Dunno, but this is not an argument.

3. I am now going to check KLAX 24R. An example, WestAir was so nice to provide.

Hi westair,

Right, I should have not have quoted and combined the two.

"I used the Fenix A320, KORD-KLAX. Default scenery. I was initially following the glideslope but once I had all 4 Papi glaring red I kicked off the AP and leveled off for a bit, before landing using the Papi. "

 

The PAPI and the ILS24R KLAX are not coincident.

I do not fly the Fenix A320.

 

 

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by vonmar

53 minutes ago, WestAir said:

I had this happen on 24R at KLAX the last time I flew. I used the PAPI to continue the landing.

For me the mis-aligned ILS is random, like the runway / taxiway tears that launch your aircraft into the air when you roll over them. Whenever the ILS is wrong, though, it's comically wrong; The 24R @ LAX misalignment wanted me to land in a backyard a few blocks short of the field.

Interesting but I could not reproduce this. PAPI and ILS were both perfectly aligned, the FBW A320 did the most perfect autoland I have ever seen so far. My manual landings are worse, sadly. 🙂

I checked the Jeppesen chart: 6.4 nautical miles out at 2200 feet at KOBEE. check!

I have the superdandy premium supreme version of MSFS (or whatever it is called).

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by crimplene

15 minutes ago, vonmar said:

The PAPI and the ILS24R KLAX are not coincident.

Roger that. The glideslope was set for the buildings short of the field for me. Thanks for giving it a go, though! If I encounter the problem again I'll post a video and @ you so you can follow up.

4 minutes ago, crimplene said:

Interesting but I could not reproduce this. PAPI and ILS were both perfectly aligned, the FBW A320 did the most perfect autoland I have ever seen so far. My manual landings are worse, sadly. 🙂

LOL! Just wait until someone releases the A350 with its auto-taxi feature. You don't know jealousy until you watch the computer stick to the centerline like it were on rails. 🤣

8 minutes ago, crimplene said:

Interesting but I could not reproduce this. PAPI and ILS were both perfectly aligned, the FBW A320 did the most perfect autoland I have ever seen so far. My manual landings are worse, sadly. 🙂

Glad to hear ILS24R KLAX is ok.

Maybe pilots having the problem could do a video or a few screenshots.

Also make sure all assistence options are off

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

I had this happen on 24R at KLAX the last time I flew. I used the PAPI to continue the landing.

For me the mis-aligned ILS is random, like the runway / taxiway tears that launch your aircraft into the air when you roll over them. Whenever the ILS is wrong, though, it's comically wrong; The 24R @ LAX misalignment wanted me to land in a backyard a few blocks short of the field.

There is a note right on the approach plate for KLAX ILS 24R “VGSI and ILS glidepath not coincident”. “VGSI” stands for “Visual Glide Slope Indicator” This is a very common annotation on r/w airports approach plates. It is rare that the visual glidepath from the PAPIs will align with the ILS glideslope - especially close to the end of the runway.

You mentioned KLAX ILS 24R. I did an autoland at (default) KLAX on runway 24R in the PMDG 737 just a couple of days ago, and the aircraft landed just past the touchdown markers on the runway.

That said, it would be more common for the PAPI to be wrong in the sim than the ILS glideslope. For the PAPI to work correctly, the PAPI lights in the scenery have to be placed exactly where they exist at the real airport. There is no database that gives PAPI locations. The scenery designer has to work with a top-down aerial photo of the actual airport, (properly aligned), and has to place the PAPI object exactly over the image of the real PAPI, and that may not always be done correctly. I did a mod of my home airport KELM (which is available at flightsim.to) and I found that the PAPI object on runway 24 was not correctly placed in the default scenery, nor was the VASI on the opposite end, runway 06. I corrected both. 

The ILS glideslope locations on the other hand (at least in the US) comes directly from the FAA navaid database at https://enasr.FAA.gov which gives the latitude, longitude, horizontal alignment and glideslope angle for each US glideslope transmitter very precisely. Now, there may be issues with the glideslope locations in the default MSFS navaid info from NavBlue - I don’t know. I use Navigraph for MSFS nav data, and I know that Navigraph gets navaid technical data from Jeppesen, which in turn gets it from official government sources like the FAA database referenced above.

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by JRBarrett

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

I would like to test the KLAX ILS 24R.

This would be the default KLAX, correct?

Which aircraft did you use to fly the approach and glide slope?

"Because the glideslope information is incorrect "

What was incorrect?

 

Wrong guy. That wasn't me.

2 hours ago, Jazz said:

Because the glideslope information is incorrect and leads you short or long on the runway and/or becomes erratic, as has been explained.

As I just mentioned in my post above. I don't keep a notebook next to my yoke so I can write down the offending airport when I encounter one.

What information was incorrect?

 

Note:

I had combined questions on the previous post on accident (cut and pasting error).

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by vonmar

2 hours ago, crimplene said:

1. Yes, you obviously missed the OP. Quote: "the localizer is offset where it should not be, or more importantly in almost 90% of sceneries, glideslope and PAPI are way off"

In my view "almost 90%" equals to "most".

Yes indeed, my apologies, I had fortgotten he wrote that. However, he also mentions 'sceneries' so I should clarify that I have very few sceneries in MSFS. 3 to be exact so I really can't comment on them or the commonality of faults.

I, myself, am talking about the erroneous GS data that appears in the MSFS world that sends you to the wrong place. This problem is neither any where near 90% or close to the word "most". It's nowhere near as common as it was in times gone by but on occasion it happens. It is there.

2 hours ago, crimplene said:

2. A claim has to be proven. "What on earth would be the point?" Dunno, but this is not an argument.

🤨 I don't have to prove any claim. I joined in a conversation in good faith to point out that there has been issues in regard to glide slopes for many many a year. You can recognise that as a statement of an observed reality from someone that has been doing this a long time or you can attribute another more bizarre agenda for what I wrote if you would like. Neither am I having "an argument" as I have made clear. I'm simply sharing my experience. Perhaps I have observed something that you and some others have not? Or perhaps I am here making up stories to argue with you or other random people?

Either way, matters not a jot to me. I know that the problem, although occasional, is there.

Edited January 8, 20233 yr by Jazz

7 minutes ago, vonmar said:

What information was incorrect?

I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

17 minutes ago, Jazz said:

I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

I just did a fresh post to corrected the portion of the previous post that was not directed at you in error.

I did include a note. I meant it as a correction which did not require an answer.

However, I had read your answer in a previous post:
“ Because the glideslope information is incorrect and leads you short or long on the runway and/or becomes erratic, as has been explained.
As I just mentioned in my post above. I don't keep a notebook next to my yoke so I can write down the offending airport when I encounter one. “

I tested ILS24R KLAX.
No problems.

 

 

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

 

I tested ILS24R KLAX.
No problems.

This is right around where I had disconnected, because I had all 4 red papi lights and those buildings were getting kind of close, haha.

Maybe it has to do with having photogammy turn off then back on. I'll do some tests next time I see it happen. It's happened in more places than LAX.24R and with the FBW too.

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

 

I tested ILS24R KLAX.
No problems.

 

 

Too far away from the TDZ. What happens at 200ft agl? Still 2white and 2red and the glideslope still perfectly centered?