Just Flight Pipers updates

[JaseMelbo 391]

16 hours ago, SuperKaro2014 said:

Installed the updated Arrow 3 today and spent a couple of hours doing circuits at EKSB, a short return hop EKSB to EKST, and finally 5S6 to 6S2. All flights were with Live Weather.

What I noted:

* She's still lovely ❤️ For me everything works as advertised and the Arrow 3 is (still) a real joy to fly.

* I had to reduce the sensitivity of my rudder input as it got a bit squirrely on take off.

* Trimming for level flight using both elevator and rudder trim was easier than I remember from earlier versions. I have an X52 Pro HOTAS and use one of the little wheels on the base of the throttle for pitch trim and one of the hat switches on the joystick for rudder.

* Tested the new 'VS mode' which worked fine and as described in the manual. I had none of the issues described by other posters.

* Flight model is great and the plane gets tossed around a lot less than in the previous version. Yes, there is still turbulence and it can get bumpy on approach, but that goes for the WBSim/JPL C152 as well for example... another favourite GA of mine.

* The EFB updates are pretty neat although I imagine I won't be using them much. The map is very slow to update as reported by others.

The Arrow 3 still comes highly recommended from this casual simmer 🙂

 

She's a beaut.  Love it!

[somiller 694]

I can't believe nobody ever talks about behavior when adding flaps. I flew a Cherokee much more than an Arrow, but they Arrow is a Cherokee with 200 horses and a retractable gear. When adding flaps it doesn't balloon, it pitches over with no input on the controls or change of trim. It drives me absolutely crazy that they can't get this right. When flaps extend on the P28's the wing camber increases and the center of lift shifts back on the wing - hence the nose-over. This tendency also works in reverse, so when practicing touch-and-go's one has to be VERY careful when retracting flaps, especially retracting more than one notch. On the "go" when you push in full power to climb out the nose pitches up dramatically even before retracting flaps, and if you retract before trimming nose-down you've got your hands full pushing to avoid a stall - it is quite dramatic.

[Bobsk8 12,853]

16 minutes ago, somiller said:

I can't believe nobody ever talks about behavior when adding flaps. I flew a Cherokee much more than an Arrow, but they Arrow is a Cherokee with 200 horses and a retractable gear. When adding flaps it doesn't balloon, it pitches over with no input on the controls or change of trim. It drives me absolutely crazy that they can't get this right. When flaps extend on the P28's the wing camber increases and the center of lift shifts back on the wing - hence the nose-over. This tendency also works in reverse, so when practicing touch-and-go's one has to be VERY careful when retracting flaps, especially retracting more than one notch. On the "go" when you push in full power to climb out the nose pitches up dramatically even before retracting flaps, and if you retract before trimming nose-down you've got your hands full pushing to avoid a stall - it is quite dramatic.

Yeah, the Arrow 3 flies nothing like a real Cherokee. 

[robert young 2,897]

I don't possess any of the JF aircraft currently, but I have a feeling that most of the characteristics complained about in this thread are fixable. Not all of the flight model problems are entirely JF's fault, but nevertheless I'm surprised they haven't found workarounds to the reported twitchiness, lack of elevator authority at slow speeds and squirreling behaviour on the ground. All of these problems require a lot of VERY careful flight modelling work which take a lot of time. You cannot just enter the numbers in the fllight_model.cfg and hope it flies true because the core MSFS flight model has parameters which exaggerate many reactions to control inputs that shouldn't be there.

It's for that reason that I just don't fly the vast majority of addons and especially those in the market place as third party aircraft there still have encrypted config files so they are not editable, though the JF ones are because they sell also outside of the market place.

I would like to help but it's a difficult situation as I'm not sure JF would take kindly to the publishing of various fixes. I'm pretty confident I can fix the reported problems - health allowing - but at the moment it's a bit of a commitment and I also don't have endless financial resources to buy addons at the moment.

The rudder twitchiness on the ground can be fixed with careful edits that involve a bit of "cheating", or rather entering params in the flight_model cfg that are far from standard, but it is possible.

[SAS443 1,729]

7 hours ago, somiller said:

I can't believe nobody ever talks about behavior when adding flaps. I flew a Cherokee much more than an Arrow, but they Arrow is a Cherokee with 200 horses and a retractable gear. When adding flaps it doesn't balloon, it pitches over with no input on the controls or change of trim. It drives me absolutely crazy that they can't get this right. When flaps extend on the P28's the wing camber increases and the center of lift shifts back on the wing - hence the nose-over. This tendency also works in reverse, so when practicing touch-and-go's one has to be VERY careful when retracting flaps, especially retracting more than one notch. On the "go" when you push in full power to climb out the nose pitches up dramatically even before retracting flaps, and if you retract before trimming nose-down you've got your hands full pushing to avoid a stall - it is quite dramatic.

As a betatester, I recall this was debated during the many months of testing

Early models of PA28s had a shorter stabilator and usually exhibits a nose down pitch as you say.

The models JF are replicating have the "newer", larger stabilator which will pitch the nose up, especially 1st stage of flap.

I have flown 250hrs+ in about 6 or 7 different PA28s, none pitched "over" as you describe. But they all had the revised stabilator on the other hand.

edit: In the PA28-161 for instance, at 85kts, deploying 1st stage of flaps simply requires a firm (but temporary) forward counter on the yoke and some hundred extra RPMs. You barely have to touch trimwheel. And it will happily settle at 80 knots afterwards.

Edited April 8, 2023 by SAS443

[SuperKaro2014 278]

5 hours ago, robert young said:

I would like to help but it's a difficult situation as I'm not sure JF would take kindly to the publishing of various fixes. I'm pretty confident I can fix the reported problems - health allowing - but at the moment it's a bit of a commitment and I also don't have endless financial resources to buy addons at the moment.

 

This sounds interesting 😀 I will cross my fingers 🤞🏻

There are plenty of custom flight models out there for other aircraft and developers... If I were JF I would see it as an advantage if a dedicated person spent some time modding and improving my product. Using mods is optional after all.

[UrgentSiesta 942]

JF - thank you!

PLEASE figure out CFD!

[SuperKaro2014 278]

Here’s a nice review of the latest updates for the PA28 family.

 

[St Mawgan 1,405]

For some reason the Heading bug 'bug' I was experiencing on these also affects my other aircraft so I am steering well clear of these now. Something is wrong somewhere. 

[Paul K 1,365]

4 minutes ago, St Mawgan said:

For some reason the Heading bug 'bug' I was experiencing on these also affects my other aircraft so I am steering well clear of these now. Something is wrong somewhere. 

Is that the problem where if you raise the gear using a keyboard binding or a button on a controller, the heading bug goes to something like 122 degrees - but doesn't happen if you mouse-click on the gear lever in the VC ? If so, I had that same problem until this latest update, and now it is fixed. Which Arrow do you have - III, III Turbo or IV ?

 

[sd_flyer 6,087]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:46 AM, somiller said:

I can't believe nobody ever talks about behavior when adding flaps. I flew a Cherokee much more than an Arrow, but they Arrow is a Cherokee with 200 horses and a retractable gear. When adding flaps it doesn't balloon, it pitches over with no input on the controls or change of trim. It drives me absolutely crazy that they can't get this right. When flaps extend on the P28's the wing camber increases and the center of lift shifts back on the wing - hence the nose-over. This tendency also works in reverse, so when practicing touch-and-go's one has to be VERY careful when retracting flaps, especially retracting more than one notch. On the "go" when you push in full power to climb out the nose pitches up dramatically even before retracting flaps, and if you retract before trimming nose-down you've got your hands full pushing to avoid a stall - it is quite dramatic.

I have flown nearly all models of Arrow from 180 to 200hp,  hershey bar and tapered wing, t tail and turbo. Frankly I can't recall pitch down moment during flaps deployment except Cherokee 140. 

Arrow used to be very popular for commercial/CFI  training.  But since FAA has changed rules and so complex airplanes ( retract gear) can be substituted with TAA (technically advanced airplane) most retract gear fleet including Arrow got phased out. Since TAA are more cost efficient.

Most of Arrow I flew ended up in gear up prop strike accident which always required change of entire engine (due to crankshaft damage). Therefore many flight schools were happy to get rid of old Arrow fleet..

[SuperKaro2014 278]

On 4/11/2023 at 6:33 PM, Paul K said:

Is that the problem where if you raise the gear using a keyboard binding or a button on a controller, the heading bug goes to something like 122 degrees - but doesn't happen if you mouse-click on the gear lever in the VC ? If so, I had that same problem until this latest update, and now it is fixed. Which Arrow do you have - III, III Turbo or IV ?

 

Heading bug changing when toggle landing gear using binded key | Just Flight Community

[Paul K 1,365]

44 minutes ago, SuperKaro2014 said:

Heading bug changing when toggle landing gear using binded key | Just Flight Community

Yes, that's the one - I posted about the problem on that same thread. Martyn at JF thought they had sorted it out earlier, but it's finally fixed with the latest update. So, I was wondering if that was the problem that @St Mawgan was still experiencing.

I've done a good number of flights now, but I still see none of the problems being reported by others. I did have an issue where if you used VS Hold to climb, then pressed Altitude Hold, the VS Hold stayed on, but with a value of 0 feet per minute. This in effect served to maintain that height when the proper Altitude Hold was switched off. It seems to have resolved itself now, and VS Hold is switched off altogether when Altitude Hold is selected. I have a feeling my dodgy cheapo mouse might have been at fault ( it sometimes double-clicks by itself ), but for those who can not cancel Altitude Hold, it might be worth checking. 

[St Mawgan 1,405]

I'm having a different heading bug issue to this. Or I was. I've uninstalled them all now (Arrow III, Turbo pair and Warrior). Whatever the issue was it was affecting other aircraft so they are gone I would think for good. 

[Paul K 1,365]

16 minutes ago, St Mawgan said:

I'm having a different heading bug issue to this. Or I was. I've uninstalled them all now (Arrow III, Turbo pair and Warrior). Whatever the issue was it was affecting other aircraft so they are gone I would think for good. 

Very odd that they were affecting your other aircraft.