Getting old enough to see how everything eventually changes, I’m wondering if I’m the only one thinking this. I’m wondering if LM nows this and is willing to sit and wait. Not all simusers have left and some will eventually return. There is an existant market, however small that may grow over time. Prices might be higher, but at least there will be product. Just thinking.

Edited July 20, 20232 yr by newtie
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Yes, it is a niche and now getting more geared toward professional market.

Due to world wide pilot shortage, this professional niche market will be huge.  If I run a flight school for example.  I will be running professional Prepar3d or professional X-plane.  Chances are prepar3d due to their simdirector.  For complex CBTs or scenarios, Prepar3d is it imho.  I am also assuming LM offer's service level agreements for their corporate/education clients.  

 

  

22 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Yes, it is a niche and now getting more geared toward professional market.

Due to world wide pilot shortage, this professional niche market will be huge.  If I run a flight school for example.  I will be running professional Prepar3d or professional X-plane.  Chances are prepar3d due to their simdirector. 

Chances are CAE or L3 due to their full lineup on simulator products then...

2 hours ago, C2615 said:

Chances are CAE or L3 due to their full lineup on simulator products then...

I had forgotten about CAE and L3.  Yup, those are LM direct competitors. 

Would love to have and own one CAE full-flight simulator for home use...😛

 

Is CAE using P3D in the simulator? Look at those plane shadows...but those clouds look so similar to one of the simulators that I have...

CAE 7000XR Series Level D Full-flight Simulator | CAE

Looks like they too have simdirector competitor called "Dynamic scenario creation using CAE Airport clutter Editor"

Edited July 20, 20232 yr by Skywolf

7 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Is CAE using P3D in the simulator? Look at those plane shadows...but those clouds look so similar to one of the simulators that I have...

CAE 7000XR Series Level D Full-flight Simulator | CAE

Looks like they too have simdirector competitor called "Dynamic scenario creation using CAE Airport clutter Editor"

From what I can tell after been in dozens of CAE Simulator, it's not P3D.

I have heard a rumor the visual is based on some v6 or v7 X-Plane, but others say it's home grow visual. While visually it feels about that age (XPv6), although it have very detailed airport modeling in big airports. And it also have landing light lit up clouds effect, kinda weird to see that with overall very old graphic.

2 minutes ago, C2615 said:

From what I can tell after been in dozens of CAE Simulator, it's not P3D.

I have heard a rumor the visual is based on some v6 or v7 X-Plane, but others say it's home grow visual. While visually it feels about that age (XPv6), although it have very detailed airport modeling in big airports. And it also have landing light lit up clouds effect, kinda weird to see that with overall very old graphic.

Wouldn't CAE just benefit with newer and better software? 

One of these days I do want to experience CAE flight simulator tour in person.  

18 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Is CAE using P3D in the simulator?

Not even close, CAE Simulators use CAE Tropos™-6000XR visual system.

6 minutes ago, polosim said:

Not even close, CAE Simulators use CAE Tropos™-6000XR visual system.

Interesting...thank you for mentioning it.

It does look like fsx had a baby with x-plane.  Smooth animation even though it is about a decade old.  

CAE Tropos-6000XR Visual Solution - YouTube

 

Edited July 20, 20232 yr by Skywolf

14 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Wouldn't CAE just benefit with newer and better software? 

One of these days I do want to experience CAE flight simulator tour in person.  

China Southern have partner with Tencent to develop a new visual system that based on UE(5 maybe?) and it works in their CAE simulator  (basically the simulator have totally different system for flight and for visual)

And it looks almost as good as MSFS.

3 hours ago, C2615 said:

And it looks almost as good as MSFS.

And here we go again... MSFS.

The aim of these Level D sims (for pilot training) is not to look good.

1 hour ago, fnav77 said:

And here we go again... MSFS.

The aim of these Level D sims (for pilot training) is not to look good.

Visual Fidelity is also a important part of Fidelity, it used to be "good enough" for training, but if you have the technologist and resources to put in better visual, why not?

Here is a video about it:

 

3 hours ago, fnav77 said:

And here we go again... MSFS.

The aim of these Level D sims (for pilot training) is not to look good.

Talk about getting bent out of shape because someone just mentioned MSFS.  What was wrong with what they said?  What if they said "And it looks almost as good as XP12?"  

Quote

China Southern have partner with Tencent to develop a new visual system that based on UE(5 maybe?) and it works in their CAE simulator  (basically the simulator have totally different system for flight and for visual)

And it looks almost as good as MSFS.

Wow, those are impressive visuals. 

Funny, I never realized they set a goal to NOT look good for Pilot Training... Really?  That's their goal, to not look good? 

 The GOAL is to train pilots, if they can increase visual fidelity while doing so then all the better.  Having upgraded visuals even in a FAA/CAE certified sim certainly can't be a bad thing LOL.  Yes, visuals for FAA/CAE certified sims have not been the primary deliverable by any means because they are procedural trainers so it is more about the HW/Control environment they are sitting in, it's all about flight deck familiarization and procedural training after all however to imply they don't want it to look good is silly.  The FAA directive for flight simulation says "best effort" for visuals still if I am not mistaken but give me one reason NOT to overlay improved visuals if it is technically feasible.  Because the goal is to NOT look good??? 

37 seconds in:

Quote

The closer the flight scene is to reality the better the training, both in terms of effect and pilots' feelings.  

The visuals in that China Southern CAE system are using a "gaming" engine LOL  

People really need to stop being so sensitive... 

As for P3D being Niche, it always has been, most of us found it as an evolution to the ESP platform after ACES stopped supporting the platform.  P3D on it's own was never marketed to the mainstream consumer audience, it grew more from the inside out than the outside in whereas other simulators are on Steam, mobile platforms, consoles, Linux and PC and are consumer marketed.  If you weren't in the "know" about P3D chances are you wouldn't have "heard" about it in my opinion...  My understanding is the USAF is waiting on an updated sim platform for the F-35 and LM is boasting they reduced the cost of the training program by $3M PER COPY....  So yeah, our $200 is definitely Niche LOL... 

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/rms/documents/f35-training/May_2023_F35-Training_FactSheet.pdf

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/f-35-lightning-ii-training-systems.html#system

Also interesting is the Data Rights Aspect....  LM has lot's of hooks that keep even the Pentagon at their mercy LOL 

https://www.defenseone.com/business/2023/07/data-rights-fight-may-delay-usaf-training-new-f-35-simulator/388575/

And the part of that article that intrigued me most was this!!!  I mean talk about Holy grail stuff LOL

Quote

While Petersen couldn’t comment on NGAD, he said future aircraft coming into the JSE likely wouldn’t use the same setup as F-35s and F-22s. The program is pushing for “extended reality” goggles to be integrated into the JSE for future testing, he said. 

“XR” goggles are similar to virtual-reality headsets, except there are cameras on the front that allow an operator to see their hands and the real cockpit, Petersen said, “and then they have that seam line between cockpit and outside a cockpit where it then lets you see the virtual world.”

“That I would think is probably the most likely solution, so you have lower cost, smaller footprint so you can fit more cockpits into a given space, and probably in the two to three years’ timeframe from now, I think that would be a viable technology with JSE by then,” he said. 

 

Edited July 20, 20232 yr by psolk

Amazing resource is on this thread - thank you guys

I didn't realize so much is happening in the commercial space.  Truly the best time for flight simulation (corporate and consumer level).

The external graphics were the one disappointing aspect of the full motion A320 simulator that I used in Manchester a couple of years ago. The hydraulics/cockpit/consoles/switches/flightsticks were fantastic and very realistic, but the graphics were basically default P3D with empty airports. Since I selected a couple of UK airports first (Manchester and Edinburgh), I was greeted with those beige desert textures that P3D has draped over the British countryside. Not a good look at all.

At FSExpo, LM directly said they are committed to the consumer use market, but reiterated that the USAF and commercial market is their primary customer - by several orders of magnitude.  They also said they are doing what they can to encourage third party developers to continue to develop for P3D and that our encouraging third partty developers is also a large part of that effort.  Obviously, MSFS will be the perferred platform for the largest majority of simmers because of multiple platforms and extensive marketing ability.  MSFS has brought many, many more users into the flightsim world and some will gravitate towards P3D as their preferred sim.  As with any company with a product, LM will determine, from time to time, the best use of its capital and resources.