1 hour ago, AnkH said:

I listened to each and every Q&A about this issue because it is one of the most immersion killing bugs to me and it heavily affects my hometown rendering live weather basically useless in the area I live in. Only in one of the last Q&A sessions they actually separated (correctly) the icing vs. snow coverage issue, before they always considered it to be the same. And it took them more than two years to reach this point... 

It might be hard to fix, but that is not really my problem, no? It is an essential feature of the sim (live weather) which is simply broken since they introduced snow coverage. Should be enough of a priority, no? It took them several attempts to get at least those lakes free of ice, already this is just an embarassing showcase of problem solving at Asobo. 

Really, sometimes bad work is just bad work and it certainly does not help if we always defend Asobo because things are sooo difficult to fix, need sooo much manpower, soo much more data from the meteoblue partner etc. It is a major DESIGN flaw that needs correction. 

But then, if 90% of the people are using weather presets or simply to word not allowed/stupid to even notice, why blaming the devs, no? /rant over

I understand your aggravation but declaring its not your problem is not going to make them fix it any faster ... if at all. If it is difficult to fix then that may be the reality of the situation and you will have to wait like everyone else with their own pet peeve with the sim. We are not getting any more service updates for the rest of the year. I think you are increasingly falling into the take it or leave it window because resources are now focused on the new product and this issue is either not high on the remediation list or has already been worked on to the point where the devs are satisfied that they have done their best with the data provided ( See Mr. Barretts post above)

1 hour ago, JRBarrett said:

They are using a low resolution Meteo Blue snow coverage map in the area of Milford Sound, which makes the snow “spread” over a much wider geographical area than than where it actually lies in real time. Does a higher resolution map exist at MeteoBlue? Perhaps - but the cost of that might not something that MS cannot justify. I have no idea what MeteoBlue charges MS for their weather data.

Another problem in New Zealand specifically, is that the NZ government heavily restricts the dissemination of meteorological data to entities which are located outside the country, and even for entities located in NZ itself, any commercial use of that data comes with substantial subscription fees.

As I mentioned in other posts, there are almost 100 small and mid sized airports in NZ that report METARS, but the only METAR observations that can be disseminated internationally under NZ government regulations the four largest international airports. That would make it hard for MeteoBlue to build an accurate weather model emulation for the country as a whole, including actual snow depth (or lack of snow) at airports like NZMF

Super logical explanation and an interesting example of the limits of technology and feasibility. In this case, it's not "some dev got lazy and declared the wrong precision on a variable" but "the resolution of source data and International governmental regulations".

I have a feeling that changes that would require a fundamental reworking of the weather engine are going to be a part of MSFS 2024 - as well they should be. That's the best way to blow through a bunch of inter-dependent blockers - update them all at once!

I guess we'll find out if that's the case soon enough...

 

5 hours ago, enright said:

Super logical explanation and an interesting example of the limits of technology and feasibility. In this case, it's not "some dev got lazy and declared the wrong precision on a variable" but "the resolution of source data and International governmental regulations".

I have a feeling that changes that would require a fundamental reworking of the weather engine are going to be a part of MSFS 2024 - as well they should be. That's the best way to blow through a bunch of inter-dependent blockers - update them all at once!

I guess we'll find out if that's the case soon enough...

 

Agreed.  Data is everything these days and especially in MSFS as Jorge often reminds us.  Especially governments are problematic but we won't go there. 😁

sp

7 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

They are using a low resolution Meteo Blue snow coverage map in the area of Milford Sound, which makes the snow “spread” over a much wider geographical area than than where it actually lies in real time. Does a higher resolution map exist at MeteoBlue? Perhaps - but the cost of that might not something that MS cannot justify. I have no idea what MeteoBlue charges MS for their weather data.

Another problem in New Zealand specifically, is that the NZ government heavily restricts the dissemination of meteorological data to entities which are located outside the country, and even for entities located in NZ itself, any commercial use of that data comes with substantial subscription fees.

As I mentioned in other posts, there are almost 100 small and mid sized airports in NZ that report METARS, but the only METAR observations that can be disseminated internationally under NZ government regulations the four largest international airports. That would make it hard for MeteoBlue to build an accurate weather model emulation for the country as a whole, including actual snow depth (or lack of snow) at airports like NZMF

Does MeteoBlue really rely on METARs? I thought it was only MSFS that used METARs and then blended it with MeteoBlue data. Honestly, I find the live weather in NZ fine (I fly NZ 90% of the time) and its just the snow that's the issue. You can also use VATNZ to get your METARs instead.

If Asobo are using low resolution snow depth then it must be VERY low resolution. Here is how it looks on the MeteoBlue website now (Milford circled). Not even a drop of snow near Milford:

 

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by s0cks

14 minutes ago, s0cks said:

Does MeteoBlue really rely on METARs? I thought it was only MSFS that used METARs and then blended it with MeteoBlue data. Honestly, I find the live weather in NZ fine (I fly NZ 90% of the time) and its just the snow that's the issue. You can also use VATNZ to get your METARs instead.

If Asobo are using low resolution snow depth then it must be VERY low resolution. Here is how it looks on the MeteoBlue website now (Milford circled). Not even a drop of snow near Milford:

 

METARS are an important part of the data that is used to initialize the NEMS weather model before it is run.

2 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

METARS are an important part of the data that is used to initialize the NEMS weather model before it is run.

Ok, but maybe MeteoBlue have paid for the METAR access then? Because the weather for NZ on their website looks accurate enough, and in the sim it usually matches up pretty well regardless of location.

I feel for you.  My Caribbean islands are snow covered even though it was 77 degrees F at 2,000 feet. 

6 minutes ago, s0cks said:

Ok, but maybe MeteoBlue have paid for the METAR access then? Because the weather for NZ on their website looks accurate enough, and in the sim it usually matches up pretty well regardless of location.

They may for their “civilian” forecasts, but as far as airport METARS in MSFS are concerned, the only NZ METARS that are “real” and based on actual observations, are the 4 airports that report on the WMO international data feed. Those airports are: NZAA, NZCH, NZWN and NZQN.

Other than those 4, any other NZ airport “METARS” in MSFS are either derived from the MeteoBlue NEMS model predictions of what the surface weather “might” be, or simply duplicate the METAR of the nearest airport that does report on the WMO feed.

22 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

They may for their “civilian” forecasts, but as far as airport METARS in MSFS are concerned, the only NZ METARS that are “real” and based on actual observations, are the 4 airports that report on the WMO international data feed. Those airports are: NZAA, NZCH, NZWN and NZQN.

Other than those 4, any other NZ airport “METARS” in MSFS are either derived from the MeteoBlue NEMS model predictions of what the surface weather “might” be, or simply duplicate the METAR of the nearest airport that does report on the WMO feed.

I think you are on the money with it predicting what the weather might be, because from my testing the weather tends to match up with what I see on windy.com and the METARs from VATNZ. From memory, I could be wrong, but METARs are only used within close proximity of the airport in MSFS. I think for most of NZ therefore, the sim is using MeteoBlue model predictions.

That said, doesn't really explain the snow issue. I know they say low resolution is the issue, but as my example showed, that doesn't seem to match up.

3 minutes ago, s0cks said:

I think you are on the money with it predicting what the weather might be, because from my testing the weather tends to match up with what I see on windy.com and the METARs from VATNZ. From memory, I could be wrong, but METARs are only used within close proximity of the airport in MSFS. I think for most of NZ therefore, the sim is using MeteoBlue model predictions.

That said, doesn't really explain the snow issue. I know they say low resolution is the issue, but as my example showed, that doesn't seem to match up.

MB has higher resolution snow maps. The question is: can the current Live Weather system support high resolution snow maps? Snow data from external data sources was not part of LiveWeather in the beginning - it was added later. Perhaps they had to fit the snow data into the existing weather model grid size which is a rather coarse 30 kilometers.

If so, this may be something that will have to wait for MSFS2024 for any improvements.

Hehe. The way things are going MSFS2024 has a lot of expectations to fulfill.

Shows how great the sim is that people are actually upset the live weather (and particularly ice or snow cover) isn’t exactly accurate in their local airport or water by the airport or on the road leading to the airport. 

I’m sure it’s frustrating if you live or fly there all the time but it seems a bit unrealistic to expect it to be 100 all the time imho. especially in local areas with micro climates etc, 

Weather is extraordinarily difficult to predict or recreate even with reports etc and it’s obviously still WIP and likely will be for years to come. 

Apologies if I’m missing the issue here though! 

Edited May 30, 20242 yr by g-liner