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kdfw__

Did FSX And Vista Kill Flightsimulation?

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I've been away from simming since April of this year, due to a variety of reasons. Won't be ready to return until some time next year, but thought I'd "check in" to see what's cooking. I had hoped to find a plethora and smorgasbord of new releases: highly advance aircraft, gorgeous scenery, innovative new addons, etc. But, imagine my dismay to see that most of the great addons that were on the stove seemed to be still,well, on the stove. Reading bad stuff about the interaction between Vista and FSX, and the reviews of FSX seemed to tilt significantly towards the negative. Generally, I just don't see the kind of excitement and enthusiasm that I had hoped would have developed by now. The apparent demise of PSS sure doesn't add to this. OTOH, I see that CS is still up their old shenanigans. :-), and Ariane seems to have undergone a major overhaul. ricardo

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I think you are inaccurate in your assessment of the situation as it stands today. But I can understand your feelings, since you have been out of the scene since last April. In April your assessment would have been perhaps a little more on-keel. Much has happened since then in terms of add-ons, performance, and hardware.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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You might want to spend a few more days reading up to catch up. Plenty of advanced aircraft, georgous scenery and innovative new addons have been released for FSX.Just to start the list:Highly advanced aircraft: PDMG 747, PDMG MD11Georgous Scenery: MegasceneryAdvanced Mesh: FSGenesisInnovative new Addons: FEX, GEX, Flight Deck 5Missions: Abacus, many othersI know I've left a TON of products off the list, so feel free to add to it. These were just off the top of my head from things I've seen mentioned in the past few days, and I don't pay much attention to addons.Plenty more seem to be in the pipeline, as well.Death of simming? Mark Twain is giggling in his grave.

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Throw in ASX and Xgraphics, XPax coming soon, Ultimate Terrain X 1.2b, Twin Comanche for GA not to mention the SF260 and Scout package from Real Air who are also producing the Duke twin for FSX.Theirs plenty to be happy about and keep you busy with FSX for the next couple of years. Acceleration in and of itself could keep someone busy for a year learning to land on AC carriers and learning how to race etc.....FSX it seems has just come out of the womb and has plenty of life left in her.

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Obviously this version is a major disaster.And a lot worse than the previous disaster (FS2000).Add on devs like PMDG or LevelD have an impossible task to make their products playable on this system. It's why their only choice now is to go back to FS9 to make sales.On top of the bad performance we get a totally botched DX10 "upgrade" that should never have passed a first alpha test. Menu crashes, flickering textures, AA/AF issues, broken backwards compatability and even worse performance are common.

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Its interesting that one person can have a totally different take on a situation than another person might have. I notice that in many other areas (such as politics...) as well.Facts remain consistent, fact is fact. Yet the way in which people discern those facts can be totally different! It's just interesting to me.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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>The reports of FSX's death have been GREATLY exaggerated. >>LOL! I've actually used FSX a lot more than I ever used FS9, due to the fact the terrain and autogen is now at a level where low and slow flight is a real treat. The immersion and realism factor when up 3 fold.

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I don't think either of these killed flight simulation. BUT Microsoft has made a strategic decision to ship products on a date regardless of quality and that lack of quality has been obvious to its customers. I don't recall ever before a version of Flight Simulator being shipped before it was "done" and working well out of the box. But with FSX and especially with Acceleration, the ship date was set and MS was going to ship it even if they have to slap a "Preview" label on the DX10 button because the feature is not done. Obviously even ACES was embarrassed by their DX10 effort and hoped a text label would excuse them. I can't think of a single other software product where that has been done (usually features are just plain cut).Same lack of quality goes for Vista and DX10. They have been released and they just are not ready for general consumption. Performance and general quality for both of these products is below that of XP and DX9 (not just in FS but in general).Unfortunately, I don't think ACES gets it yet. If they did, they would have a commitment to continue to improve FSX until it is done and not be so obsessed with moving on to Train Sim 2. I think Vista will improve but MS has no choice but to continue to improve quality on that. Corporations are not and cannot use Vista in its current state and that's where the money comes from. DX10 is probably in ok shape but no one can tell because hardware vendors can't get drivers that work right.Having said that, I enjoy FSX more than any other version. I've also spent my share of money on new hardware to be able to enjoy it. But it is frustrating to see something so close to being excellent yet missing the mark on promised features (e.g. DX10) and on apparently being problematic for add on developers to work with.Don

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>Its interesting that one person can have a totally different>take on a situation than another person might have. I notice>that in many other areas (such as politics...) as well.>>Facts remain consistent, fact is fact. Yet the way in which>people discern those facts can be totally different! It's>just interesting to me.>>Rhett>Yeah that stuff is always interesting. Perception creates experience.

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>You might want to spend a few more days reading up to catch>up. Plenty of advanced aircraft, georgous scenery and>innovative new addons have been released for FSX.>>Just to start the list:>>Highly advanced aircraft: PDMG 747, PDMG MD11>Georgous Scenery: Megascenery>Advanced Mesh: FSGenesis>Innovative new Addons: FEX, GEX, Flight Deck 5>Missions: Abacus, many others>>I know I've left a TON of products off the list, so feel free>to add to it. These were just off the top of my head from>things I've seen mentioned in the past few days, and I don't>pay much attention to addons.>>Plenty more seem to be in the pipeline, as well.>>Death of simming? Mark Twain is giggling in his grave. The answer to the initial question is NO. And to clear things up the PMDG MD11 has NOT been released. Craig

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Don:I don't quite agree with everything you've said, but your last paragraph I totally agree with. FSX is just one of those simulation products where you have to pay attention to what you are doing. There's a tremendous amount of flexibility built into the program, but the cost of this great power means that if you aren't fully aware of what you are doing, you may run into problems. For the third-party developers, it's much harder than for the consumer to keep up with the FSX trends. It's a bit like taking up the Piper Cub and using the Storm Front Brewing weather effect. You have to be aware of what's going on around you, although there's still room for casual flight. FSX and Vista has caused something of a storm in the flight sim community, but really, it's just that. Nothing that won't blow over, given time and patience. And some people love nothing more than going out to play when the weather is lousy.Flight sim is not dead, FSX has many fun things to see and do. Of course, this is just my opinion, and may or may not be the same the official opinion of AVSIM, if any.Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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I think everyone has a bit of a different 'slant' on FSX. I haven't had the greatest luck with it myself. I'm not going to 'sugar coat' it like some do on here. IMHO, I can't find many things with FSX that are much of an improvement over FS9, least of all, the performance aspect. The really bad thing here is, it's definitely not a suitable platform to run high-grade addons such as PMDG's 744. Even the latest hardware doesn't give an acceptable level of performance for things such as that. To me, it's been a considerable let-down. Of course, others can add their own comments about it, but I myself haven't it to be so great, especially with textures that look worse than FS9 (the dreaded blurries). Obviously, that should have taken top priority to investigate and fix, but did not. On another front, it's interesting to note that you can take the same scenery from FS9 which runs really fast, then put it in FSX, and it literally kills the FPS. A lot of developers are having trouble getting acceptable performance out of products, which is why they're not releasing much, if any. :( FSX looks 'pretty', but is it functional? At this point in time, not for me.Allan

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>Obviously this version is a major disaster.>>And a lot worse than the previous disaster (FS2000).>>Add on devs like PMDG or LevelD have an impossible task to>make their products playable on this system. It's why their>only choice now is to go back to FS9 to make sales.>>On top of the bad performance we get a totally botched DX10>"upgrade" that should never have passed a first alpha test.>Menu crashes, flickering textures, AA/AF issues, broken>backwards compatability and even worse performance are common.>>>You are aware that LevelD stopped producing for FS9 a year ago and all new products will be FSX right?Besides some of the larger companies that pump out addons at a high rate (usually at the expense of quality), most have went FSX only for the future.

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I wouldn't touch Vista with steel gloves and yes, ACES killed FSX esp. simcommect which has nearly killed one of my favorite weather addons and in general FSX has made the add-on market almost nil. Randy Jura, KPDX

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I've never been so bored since FSX was released. The F/A-18 from Acceleration helped a little bit and was great, but FSX has been sitting untouched for a few weeks now. I don't know what it is... most likely it is the lack of any complex add-ons to come out for FSX (excluding the PMDG 747, which I have in FS9 and don't need in FSX). But does it matter? Maybe not, because the peformance can be so terrible anyway so I guess it's a moot point. PMDG's MD-11 is on the way I guess, but at $80 or whatever I'll probably have to pass on that. And most other aircraft add-ons are rehashes of FS9 ones that I already have, so again, excuse me while I yawn. And now developers have to deal with FS9/FSX/FSXSP1/FSXSP2/FSXSP2+accleration/and all that under Vista so this has just been a big headahce for everyone. As have my posts (Geofa is getting the Tylenol right now I bet), but this is just the way I feel about FSX.

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I sorta agree with youI find myself installing a lot of my "old" FS9 addons.... I get the performance I want with good quality addons.Not saying I don't like my RA Scout and SF260 for FSX, and UTX USA and FEX, I love them, but I can't see myself enjoying 10 FPS in the LvlD 767 for FSX, when I can fly it in George Grimshaw's Boston scenery for FS9!!I like both, I love FSX's textures, (when they are clear :(), but I hate the performance with some of the new Accel planes even at smaller city airports.... You gotta turn down a lot of stuff, and then it looks bad...I wonder what the "enjoyment ratio" is with regards to cost of current system. Some people say they enjoy it, but you gotta factor in their E6850's OCed to 3.6 and 8800GT's (dang I want one) with 4GB RAM Vista x64 ;)Not saying there aren't any people enjoying it on older systems, cause there are, but on my AMD6000, I still can't run it how I would like, and that's mostly stock acft :(FSX is power hungry....that's mainly the jist of things....you need a nice nice setup to fully enjoy it (IMHO), and for a lot of users, that is not an option....

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I wouldn't say "Killed" but definitely seriously "shaken up". I have FSX. It runs and performs great. But it just bores me. Cartoonish autogen and textures. There's nothing in FSX that I can't currently do/see in FS9 with superb fidelity. I hope all the GEX, FEX, REX will sort that out but for now I stay put very happily. I do think there's a lot of denial in simming right now! (and not the river in Egypt...)

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