1 hour ago, flightwusel said:

FF had premium prices before. But I don't regret the B767 ($120 for the Global Package) because I enjoy it a lot and it has a unique function (execute checklists).

It sounds they integrated something like that now again with their Co-pilot functions. (I really don't care for their extensive crew and ground functions but that seems to be a trend among aircraft developers and the buyership seems to like it?)

$75 for a buggy X-Crafts E-Jet is hefty, but $90 for a FlightFactor widebody seems reasonable to me.

Personally I don't know yet if I will get it.

Yes, I agree. I do like their 757 and have it installed right now (with all the upgrades). I also have their A320 and A350, but I just never clicked with Airbuses, and there are other issues at play with both of those addons.

Hence, here I am, checking out their latest work and wondering if/whether it's worth the extra spend. I do actually hope it is - but this is one where, as I've said, it's really gotta be worth the differential for me to bite.

And regardless if it is subjectively "worth it", and regardless if I do decide to buy, I still think their pricing is misguided and self-limiting.

Heck, with their good reputation and all the amortized costs of the 752, I'd have spruced it up, reduced it's cost to something truly competitive and been trolling it everywhere I see an MSFS user lusting after another Hi Fi airliner.

E.g., I'm sure it's already as good as whatever JustFlight/BlueBird are going to release, why not go after that pent-up market demand with a "New Flight Factor Pilot" offer like PMDG does with the 736...? Then anyone who wants the 753 or F or Glass cockpit can pay whatever the going rate is...? Etc, etc...

Because if you read the average MFS user they want absolutely nothing from other simulators, the best example you have with PMDG's Zibo VS 737.

On 9/2/2024 at 7:56 PM, UrgentSiesta said:

Did you sleep through Econ 101?

You don't get to charge what you think your work is worth, you only get to charge what people are willing to pay you for your work.

Anyone who stopped learning at ECON101 will fail at business miserably. That's like trying to compete in Formula 1 after learning what the four stroke cycle is.

On 9/2/2024 at 7:56 PM, UrgentSiesta said:

Please do explain to me what "discerning" users see as differentiating features of FF's vs PMDG's 777s?

I haven't looked that much at the PMDG 777 but had it for P3D. From what i've seen however I would say that the whole maintenance simulation in realtime and with animations like engine opening, tire replacements etc., the whole crew interaction with voice and the separate simulation of the pushback-truck alone are a few of the very nice features I hadn't expected to see. And also the crazy amount of possible failures to program is also something we had only seen in the CL650 so far. Some very in-depth features like even the MEL that can be configured as required by the company, the visual realtime of the cabin-configuration (first/business/economy) are another few features I am not sure PMDG offers. Last but not least, the overall more acurate flight dynamics of the sim and better simulation of inertia is one of the biggest advantages (have seen some real pilots criticizing that part on the PMDG a few weeks ago, not sure if they have improved it. And I have seen BB711 being very happy with the flight behaviour of the FF777). Another nice thing is that all important performance values are very close to the real ones (2%-max 5% compared to the FCOM). I am also not sure if the PMDG offers resizable popout windows that will save their position and size (something that was basic in P3D but very badly done in MSFS 1,5 year ago - not sure if they have imporved that?).

This alone justifies in my eyes the higher price. And knowing that the XP-community is much smaller, the price difference is a joke. Or let's put it this way: if we assume that PMDG sells 10x more copies of their 777 than FF (raw estimation), the PMDG is completely overpriced and should cost not more than 10-12$ (in relation to the profit made because the amount of work put in both addons can be assumed as being more or less similar).

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I'm sorry, this just isn't true.

Imagine how much an iPhone would cost if it were actually as you imagine...

They're made in China, guess why...and mass produced.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I'm sorry, this just isn't true.

Imagine how much an iPhone would cost if it were actually as you imagine...

iPhones are are already overpriced. Apple are generating 50% to 60% margins on them. Much more than they would need to make a "normal business". They are generating a lot of billions of benefits just with the iPhones. So it's the opposite. With nowadays technology and costs they should cost 30-40% less and not more. Or perhaps I didn't understand your point?

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

You see, the thing here is that the devs are selling an intangible that has extremely low COGS. Better to capture additional market share than try to squeeze more out of a vastly smaller pool of customers.

Weird statements. I think that is is quite clear that it's the opposite if we assume the number of customers for PMDG being let's say 10x higher than for the FF that doesn't even cost twice more. So the calculations are pretty easy to do: PMDG is squeezing MSFS's community and can generate way much profit only because of the significantly higher number of customers, for production costs that should be more or less around the same. So it's pretty clear who is taking advantage of which customers here.

5 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

So the calculations are pretty easy to do: PMDG is squeezing MSFS's community and can generate way much profit only because of the significantly higher number of customers,

Also they charge their customer for every variant unlike in the past when they use to charge at a higher price to include all the variants of a certain group (700, 800, 900).  Now they have to pay separate for each one while PMDG still maintain their profit margin even at the lower price because of the larger number of customers. However I just wonder how many of those customers were willing to shell out the dollars to collect each of those variants and still feel they are getting a bargain. 

So far excellent opinions in the streams I've been watching by the group of well known RW pilots who are also simmers 🙂

I'm tempted !

2 hours ago, Franz007 said:

I haven't looked that much at the PMDG 777 but had it for P3D. From what i've seen however I would say that the whole maintenance simulation in realtime and with animations like engine opening, tire replacements etc., the whole crew interaction with voice and the separate simulation of the pushback-truck alone are a few of the very nice features I hadn't expected to see. And also the crazy amount of possible failures to program is also something we had only seen in the CL650 so far. Some very in-depth features like even the MEL that can be configured as required by the company, the visual realtime of the cabin-configuration (first/business/economy) are another few features I am not sure PMDG offers. Last but not least, the overall more acurate flight dynamics of the sim and better simulation of inertia is one of the biggest advantages (have seen some real pilots criticizing that part on the PMDG a few weeks ago, not sure if they have improved it. And I have seen BB711 being very happy with the flight behaviour of the FF777). Another nice thing is that all important performance values are very close to the real ones (2%-max 5% compared to the FCOM). I am also not sure if the PMDG offers resizable popout windows that will save their position and size (something that was basic in P3D but very badly done in MSFS 1,5 year ago - not sure if they have imporved that?).

I appreciate that lengthy reply - very helpful!

1 hour ago, BobFS88 said:

Also they charge their customer for every variant unlike in the past when they use to charge at a higher price to include all the variants of a certain group (700, 800, 900).  Now they have to pay separate for each one while PMDG still maintain their profit margin even at the lower price because of the larger number of customers. However I just wonder how many of those customers were willing to shell out the dollars to collect each of those variants and still feel they are getting a bargain. 

As a previous customer from P3D, I can strongly state that I vastly prefer PMDGs new pricing model.

I can/have bought exactly the variant I want (the BBJ1) for essentially 50% less than what it cost me in Prepar3D.

PMDGs "loss leader" pricing on the 736 is a marketing master stroke. FF should do something similar on the 752...

Ironically, it's exactly the "base model" requirement that will keep me from buying the Fenix A319. I don't want a 320 (already have FFs) and I don't want an A321. So they'll get...nothing from me, at least...

Yeah, if you want only one single version, the actual pricing-model may be better. I think that depends a lot on the users wishes, can be a win or a lost 😊

I was looking for the FF 777-F version. I assume the 777-200ER Is the only version option available. I was also interested in the Fenix a319, But have no interest in the A320.

16 minutes ago, Culley4246 said:

I was looking for the FF 777-F version. I assume the 777-200ER Is the only version option available. I was also interested in the Fenix a319, But have no interest in the A320.

The FF777-F will come later.

5 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Then how can you explain the pricing that existed for such a long time in FSX/Prepar3D...?

You see, the thing here is that the devs are selling an intangible that has extremely low COGS. Better to capture additional market share than try to squeeze more out of a vastly smaller pool of customers.

I think we’re saying the same thing?