5 minutes ago, cobalt said:

I have to totally disagree. I had an average system, and once the initial glitches were overcome I found FSX to be a great sim, superseded only by MSFS2020 which of course launched a new era. For the last several years of use, I had virtually no problems with FSX. Sorry if you had a different experience, but that was not mine. 

What year did you dive into using FSX?

5 minutes ago, Dillon said:

What year did you dive into using FSX?

The year it launched, which I think was 2007.

58 minutes ago, cobalt said:

The year it launched, which I think was 2007.

Thanks.  Wasn't sure if you benefited from the years of tweaking the community had to do to get the sim to run reasonably well.  That said to each his own.  It was bloatware for many that required way more from hardware than is should for what you got (hence extended freeware development for FS9).  As they say, with enough wind pigs can fly.😳  Glad we have MSFS/MS2024 now.👍

Edited November 13, 20241 yr by Dillon

1 hour ago, Dillon said:

Thanks.  Wasn't sure if you benefited from the years of tweaking the community had to do to get the sim to run reasonably well.  That said to each his own.  It was bloatware for many that required way more from hardware than is should for what you got (hence extended freeware development for FS9).  As they say, with enough wind pigs can fly.😳  Glad we have MSFS/MS2024 now.👍

FYI, I had an Alienware X51 that had an i7-2600 3.4 GHz processor and 8GB memory, and FSX worked just fine on that system. I did upgrade later when I acquired MSFS2020 in 2020. 

Edited November 13, 20241 yr by cobalt

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Yup, I think MSFS 2020 is probably the peak of freeware.  

You've said this before, and no, I think the FS9 era (aka FS2002 / FS2004) was probably the peak of freeware....for a variety of reasons.

If MSFS2024 sticks around awhile, it too, will garner a big freeware following, just by nature of the sheer size of market.  MSFS2020...had it stuck around longer, would have gotten there I think.  The problem is, it has been (or soon will be) replaced after 4 years.

2020 will not be totally replaced, but I do think in 8-10 months a majority of its userbase will be on 2024.  There may be some keeping 2020 around for certain add-ons.  But I'm speaking of the majority of the users.

20 minutes ago, Mace said:

You've said this before, and no, I think the FS9 era (aka FS2002 / FS2004) was probably the peak of freeware....for a variety of reasons.I

I have over 2200 add-ons for MSFS 2000, nearly all of them freeware. For earlier MSFS versions, all of my addons combined didn't come close to that number. 

Yeah .. Have to agree with Fs9 being peak freeware. I fondly remember having a ton of Project Opensky stuff as well as project Airbus and all sorts of other panels, sound sets and the like. Avsim and Flightsim.com file libraries were on fire. Just like a few others mentioned. FSX came and after trying it out a few times i realized im not going to be able to afford a new pc to run this properly and put it down. Decided to skip it altogether then some of you guys know the rest of the story with ACES and the ill fated Microsoft flight.

I will hand MSFS a well deserved second place though and acknowledge that the quality demand nowadays is a lot higher so more time is needed to get stuff out the door so that second place has major caveats.

 

Just my two devalued cents.

 

Cheers

1 hour ago, cobalt said:

I have over 2200 add-ons for MSFS 2000, nearly all of them freeware. For earlier MSFS versions, all of my addons combined didn't come close to that number. 

Really?  I had a ton of freeware for FS2002 and FS2004, way more than for MSFS2020, and back then, there were more sites than just one to obtain it.

I was the one who brought FS9 to the discussion. Looks like some people did not read it correctly: I was talking about aircraft. Regarding scenery and utilities, I think MSFS is ahead. Specially since Microsoft did the hard part this time (mixing the scenery with the surroundings).

10 hours ago, martinboehme said:

Of course, the standards of the time made it easier - 2D panels were the norm, and an FBW A380 would not have been even remotely possible

Yeap, I remember that time, when I could look for a good model, a good panel, and good sounds, all by separate, and then mixing and matching. After VCs became the norm, there were less and less freeware airliners available.

11 hours ago, Maxis said:

Yeah .. Have to agree with Fs9 being peak freeware. I fondly remember having a ton of Project Opensky stuff as well as project Airbus and all sorts of other panels, sound sets and the like. Avsim and Flightsim.com file libraries were on fire. Just like a few others mentioned. FSX came and after trying it out a few times i realized im not going to be able to afford a new pc to run this properly and put it down. Decided to skip it altogether then some of you guys know the rest of the story with ACES and the ill fated Microsoft flight.

I will hand MSFS a well deserved second place though and acknowledge that the quality demand nowadays is a lot higher so more time is needed to get stuff out the door so that second place has major caveats.

 

Just my two devalued cents.

Out of curiosity, how did some of the top FS9 freeware compare to some of the top MSFS 2020 freeware? For example, did FS9 freeware have planes that were as complex and the fidelity as high as the FBW A320 and FBW A380?

Did FS9 have anything like FSLTL or AIG? 

13 hours ago, cobalt said:

FYI, I had an Alienware X51 that had an i7-2600 3.4 GHz processor and 8GB memory, and FSX worked just fine on that system.

The i7-2600 only came out in 2011 though, so five years after the launch of FSX. Yes, by that time we were happily running FSX, but in the beginning it was rough.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Out of curiosity, how did some of the top FS9 freeware compare to some of the top MSFS 2020 freeware? For example, did FS9 freeware have planes that were as complex and the fidelity as high as the FBW A320 and FBW A380?

No, definitely not - I don't think it would have been possible. But there were some pretty amazing addons for the time (the Tin Mouse 737-200 is another one that comes to mind), and there were a lot of them, with lots of variety.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Did FS9 have anything like FSLTL or AIG?

Yes - Project AI and World of AI. 

10 minutes ago, martinboehme said:

No, definitely not - I don't think it would have been possible. But there were some pretty amazing addons for the time (the Tin Mouse 737-200 is another one that comes to mind), and there were a lot of them, with lots of variety.

Yes - Project AI and World of AI. 

Oh cool.  Sounds like in terms of complexity and fidelity of add-ons, the fidelity is higher today for the top freeware add-ons in MSFS 2020 (ie. FBW A320, FBW A380) vs the top add-ons for FS9.

It would be really awesome to compare the number of add-ons as well between FS9 and MSFS 2020, but unfortunately, I can't find that data at flightsim.to and I am not aware of a comprehensive website for FS9 that lists the number of freeware add-ons available.

Edited November 14, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

54 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Oh cool.  Sounds like in terms of complexity and fidelity of add-ons, the fidelity is higher today for the top freeware add-ons in MSFS 2020 (ie. FBW A320, FBW A380) vs the top add-ons for FS9.

Yes, I would probably say so -- though thinking back now, there's at least one project that comes awfully close, namely Project Tupolev. Check out this video or search YouTube for many more. Granted, the Tu-154 would be considered pretty niche today, but it was certainly amazing in terms of a freeware addon, and I'd love to have an equivalent in MSFS.

That's not to detract from the many other good freeware aircraft that were available at the time. There was amazing variety -- jet airliners, turboprop airliners, single-engine piston airplanes, fighters... check out my previous post here for some of the highlights.

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

It would be really awesome to compare the number of add-ons as well between FS9 and MSFS 2020, but unfortunately, I can't find that data at flightsim.to and I am not aware of a comprehensive website for FS9 that lists the number of freeware add-ons available.

The Avsim library is still up at https://library.avsim.net/ -- it was one of, if not the freeware site at the time, and it lists "Total Files in Library: 230507".

I'm not aware of a way to get similar numbers from flightsim.to, but then numbers don't really tell the whole story anyway. As @Luis Hernandez points out, the one area in particular where FS9 was ahead of MSFS was freeware aircraft. In terms of scenery, it's amazing what's on offer for MSFS -- thinking of @vbazillio's and @superspud's airports as just two examples.

13 minutes ago, martinboehme said:

Yes, I would probably say so -- though thinking back now, there's at least one project that comes awfully close, namely Project Tupolev. Check out this video or search YouTube for many more. Granted, the Tu-154 would be considered pretty niche today, but it was certainly amazing in terms of a freeware addon, and I'd love to have an equivalent in MSFS.

That's not to detract from the many other good freeware aircraft that were available at the time. There was amazing variety -- jet airliners, turboprop airliners, single-engine piston airplanes, fighters... check out my previous post here for some of the highlights.

The Avsim library is still up at https://library.avsim.net/ -- it was one of, if not the freeware site at the time, and it lists "Total Files in Library: 230507".

I'm not aware of a way to get similar numbers from flightsim.to, but then numbers don't really tell the whole story anyway. As @Luis Hernandez points out, the one area in particular where FS9 was ahead of MSFS was freeware aircraft. In terms of scenery, it's amazing what's on offer for MSFS -- thinking of @vbazillio's and @superspud's airports as just two examples.

Thanks, really insightful!