From what I've seen on the WorkingTitle Discord, the same seems to be true for bug reports as well. The answer to those is basically “report it on the official forum and hope that it moves up Microsoft's priority list eventually”.

21 minutes ago, guenseli said:

 No, wipers where promised, why not on certain planes?

Can you link the source where wipers were promised by Microsoft on all planes that came with MSFS 2024?  Please link the source if you have it.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

I won't start that way now with you. Get google, search yourself and have a look what Jörg Neumann said in that interview.

And please reread my above post where I explained that when MS talks about wipers, that customers for sure do expect that all planes have wipers and not just certain ones. Don't get stuck on that wipers case, please, its just an example.

Still don't know why you come rude here, I do not insult anyone.

14 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Can you link the source where wipers were promised by Microsoft on all planes that came with MSFS 2024?  Please link the source if you have it.

Oh, come on.

56 minutes ago, guenseli said:

I won't start that way now with you. Get google, search yourself and have a look what Jörg Neumann said in that interview.

And please reread my above post where I explained that when MS talks about wipers, that customers for sure do expect that all planes have wipers and not just certain ones. Don't get stuck on that wipers case, please, its just an example.

Still don't know why you come rude here, I do not insult anyone.

Asking you for a source is not rude. If you claim that Microsoft promised wipers on all their planes, I would like to see that source because I will gladly join in on the complaints and raise this issue in the Twitch Q&A developer stream, if they did indeed promise it.

If you can kindly provide the source, I would love to see it. If you can't provide the source, then sadly, you lose credibility in my view and I have to go with the fact that Microsoft never promised this. I did a quick Google search for this and I don't see anything where Microsoft promised all planes would have wipers. Also, I have probably tuned in to 85% of the Twitch Q&As and if there was one that I missed, I probably rewatched the vod.  I have read many interviews that Jorg has given, including the interviews he has given on MSFS 2024, and I watched quite a few of his interviews for the upcoming MSFS 2024 release. Never did I hear Jorg promise windshield wipers would work on all planes that came with MSFS 2024, hence the source is important because I may have missed it if he did mention it.

Also, I find you rude by your response when I asked you for a source. I did not say anything derogatory to you, I did not insult you, I simply asked you for a source and even used "please" when I asked you for the source.

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

  

1 hour ago, outermarker said:

From what I've seen on the WorkingTitle Discord, the same seems to be true for bug reports as well. The answer to those is basically “report it on the official forum and hope that it moves up Microsoft's priority list eventually”.

inibuilds does collect bug reports for the 2024 aircraft on their discord, so that just seems to be a WT thing.

 

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

I did a quick Google search for this and I don't see anything where Microsoft promised all planes would have wipers. Also, I have probably tuned in to 85% of the Twitch Q&As and if there was one that I missed, I probably rewatched the vod.  I have read many interviews that Jorg has given, including the interviews he has given on MSFS 2024, and I watched quite a few of his interviews for the upcoming MSFS 2024 release. Never did I hear Jorg promise windshield wipers would work on all planes that came with MSFS 2024, hence the source is important because I may have missed it if he did mention it.

So you won the semantics duel. Congratulations! I can remember Jorg Neumann saying in an interview something like "and now we have functioning wipers". That is - as you would correctly object from a semantical point of view - not a promise that all standard aircraft will have this feature.
But semantics aside, it is of course absurd to develop a feature and then not allow the contractors to implement it.  And I think that is actually what this is all about. But you know that, don't you?

10 minutes ago, Tom_L said:

So you won the semantics duel. Congratulations! I can remember Jorg Neumann saying in an interview something like "and now we have functioning wipers". That is - as you would correctly object from a semantical point of view - not a promise that all standard aircraft will have this feature.
But semantics aside, it is of course absurd to develop a feature and then not allow the contractors to implement it.  And I think that is actually what this is all about. But you know that, don't you?

The MSFS team added a lot of functionality to the SDK to allow PMDG to release the 737 for MSFS. Does that mean every contractor Microsoft hires has to produce a PMDG level aircraft?

Edited December 6, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

3 hours ago, JaneRachel said:

I have spent weeks both as publisher and dev just sorting this part of the contract with the team, the lawyers et al.

Exactly, and in most cases the lawyer is present during the Zoom/Teams meeting.

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

The MSFS team added a lot of functionality to the SDK to allow PMDG to release the 737 for MSFS. Does that mean every contractor Microsoft hires has to produce a PMDG level aircraft?

So let's accept it as normality that MS creates a functionality in the SDK that is advertised, but does not care about implementing it in the standard aircraft of contractors. I mean, who want's functioning wipers in the first place?

17 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Does that mean every contractor Microsoft hires has to produce a PMDG level aircraft?

What it means is “go ask Microsoft” which is what iniBuilds communicated.

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

so that just seems to be a WT thing

Not really, no. Firstly, the correct avenue for all bug reports is the forums. We're lucky we also have a Discord and can interact directly with the community for some things as well, but we actually worked directly on relatively few aircraft compared to our avionics install base in 2024. So, we're (rightly) directing people to the official reporting location for those planes or those issues that are due to aircraft and not avionics.

For other larger project requests in the past, like HUDs or G3Xs or niche (but developmentally expensive) features, we did indeed suggest that folks put those requests on the forums as well, because that's the primary source for this kind of feedback and direction setting. It's not really our place to make those resource and financial prioritizations. But, the process also does totally work; that's exactly how something hugely costly like the G3X gets greenlit.

I will also say the avenue of reporting bugs through individual contractors is essentially unheard of in the development industry and indeed in most industries. That's not to say we're rejecting the feedback; I just want to point out how fortunate we all are in general.

2 minutes ago, Tom_L said:

So let's accept it as normality that MS creates a functionality in the SDK that is advertised, but does not care about implementing it in the standard aircraft of contractors. I mean, who want's functioning wipers in the first place?

You didn't answer my question.  The MSFS team added a lot of functionality to the SDK to allow PMDG to release the 737 for MSFS. Does that mean every contractor Microsoft hires has to produce a PMDG level aircraft?

1 minute ago, Tom_L said:

I mean, who want's functioning wipers in the first place?

Implemented in P3D a long time ago … implemented in the sense the SDK was updated to provide for rain/wiper functionality via an easier implementation process (still could be done without but considerably more effort, no ROI).  There were MANY new features in the P3D SDK that most developers (not paid by Lockheed Martin) did not implement (probably a reason for its demise in popularity) due to lack of ROI.  Catch-22.

MS/Asobo recognized this issue and decided to pay for “feature” development, but in this case it was not in the scope likely due to ROI.  Just business.

3 hours ago, outermarker said:

From what I've seen on the WorkingTitle Discord, the same seems to be true for bug reports as well. The answer to those is basically “report it on the official forum and hope that it moves up Microsoft's priority list eventually”.

It is not a bad thing to report directly. Most bugs eventually find their way to the one master Jira list, regardless of source. That list is normally managed by the publisher and not the developer, especially in work for hire. So going direct saves intermediaries and gets the issue noticed quicker. Most publishers like to be keeper of the Jira as it is called.