6 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Precisely. This is exactly why they should rebrand their survey. They couldn't care less about the neutrality of the results if it didn't help their bottom line.

Rebrand for what? If people want to get on forums and argument over a simple non-scientific survey, that is on them.  The survey is a snapshot of the market that is heavily skewed towards "navigraph" customers and those following flight sim closely. This survey is not even representative of the flight simulation market as a whole where the numbers would be vastly different.

People are trying to make this survey and the delay into something that it is not.

 

37 minutes ago, brinx said:

Rebrand for what?

"Flightsim Community Survey" is stunningly magnanimous. Tries to make it sound like it's a clean and unbiased:

37 minutes ago, brinx said:

snapshot of the market

 

 

37 minutes ago, brinx said:

delay into something that it is not

Oh it very much is obvious. It's a kowtow to let the dust settle on not only a mess of a product release but let 3rd parties catch up a bit and shore up the stats so that everyone can save some face. So will we at least get a 2025A and 2025B label? Haha no. Even though it's well into '25, it will still be branded as a "survey" from '24.

Edited December 9, 20241 yr by blingthinger

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Precisely. This is exactly why they should rebrand their survey. They couldn't care less about the neutrality of the results if it didn't help their bottom line. Heaven forbid anyone look at those steam stats! The '24 release was an absolute train wreck compared to '20. 

yeah, I'm not sure tbh. There is a lot more than just '24 happening in flight sim atm. I can think of several reasons why they might want to rework the survey, and that takes time, my top 2 would actually be widespread criticism that it hasn't been capturing an accurate picture of the situation (I personally disagree with that criticism, but I also know I am in a minority) and a much more demanding XP crowd this time around (after the feb XP dev conference things are waaay more organised this time around).

the whole "This will allow us to capture the sentiment of the community more comprehensively and accurately" thing is just really ambiguous.

The science behind questionnaires is actually pretty complex, as easy as it is to believe the '24 train wreck is the reason for the delay, I don't see why that on it's own would be a reason to delay it, sentiment there is not really going to be any different even in 12 months time, let alone less than that.

Edited December 9, 20241 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, brinx said:

It makes sense for them to delay if they end up with data that more accurately reflect the current state of the market

No because the current state of the market is now, not in 3-4 months.

4 hours ago, SAS443 said:

Navigraph defines what the purpose of "their" survey is

That‘s exactly what we are implying. They may be involved in business with their charts for MS2024 and don‘t want it to look bad. That means they are biasing their survey.

4 hours ago, SAS443 said:

Franz, what is the business value of a survey whose results becomes obsolete in matter of months

Exactly the same as every survey that is being made once a year and that will become obsolete after a few months, exactly the same way.

4 hours ago, SAS443 said:

Again, this is business and one of their most valued products. They should and must protect it.

What is being protected here other than making a survey that will lose a credible comparison with the last ones?

12 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

They may be involved in business with their charts for MS2024 and don‘t want it to look bad.

So yet another conspiracy theory arises.

Are you able to grasp their decision from a business standpoint? Not a personal or made-up scenario.

This news is 2 week old. It made very little splash in the FS community. But it obviously agitated some of the creative minds on the XP forum.

So honestly with all due respect, I dont want to spend time debating your alternate reality theories. I bet there are other forums for that.

Let's agree to disagree and continue our lives.

29 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

So yet another conspiracy theory arises.

Are you able to grasp their decision from a business standpoint? Not a personal or made-up scenario.

I cannot believe that you still don‘t get it. This is exactly what we said! Because they have a strong business interest their survey is not neutral anymore because they are trying to influence the result of that survey. That‘s why it isn‘t neutral anymore. You are literally confirming our suspiscion, well done 😂 Now, the fact it doesn‘t disturb you won’t surprise anyone here.

1 hour ago, Franz007 said:

What is being protected here other than making a survey that will lose a credible comparison with the last ones?

To reiterate what I said above, I'm not sure anything is being "protected" vs an effort to remake the survey, the wording is ambiguous. 

i.e. It is not clear if this is repeating last years survey being delayed, or completely remaking the survey from scratch and it taking longer than they would like. 

There is a lot more that could be done that hasn't been done before - they could extend it to exclusively xbox, android and quest users, there is absolutely a push to include a wider range of flight sim developers outside of the usual suspects.

Any delay of course has its downsides, but let's hold off complaining the delay is for the wrong reasons until we actually have a better understanding of the actual reasons.

3 hours ago, Franz007 said:

they are trying to influence the result of that survey

Stop and think about what you are saying🤔. It does not make any sense and would make the survey meaningless to them. Why would they spend money to run it? SMH.

The stuff I see written sometimes is unbelievable.

I just think the train was late...

2 hours ago, brinx said:

Why would they spend money to run it?

Well... There is now the outside possibility that they might not do.

Plenty of cancellations start off as delays... biggest one recently that springs to mind is Boeings starliner.

Not saying I think that is likely here, far from it, but the stated reason given for the delay isn't exactly a robust plan for a high quality survey either. And tbh, the main thing on the calendar between now and early 2025 is the expiry of The Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2023 (P.L. 118-5) on the first of Jan 2025, that isnt going to make the current situation better.....

5 hours ago, brinx said:

Stop and think about what you are saying🤔. It does not make any sense and would make the survey meaningless to them. Why would they spend money to run it? SMH.

The stuff I see written sometimes is unbelievable.

You seem to contradict yourself. You literally agreed with the fact that they delayed it because of their business-interests. This automatically means to influence the results. Both are correlated. So how can you still think they have a business interest by delaying it but at the same time believe that they don’t try to change the outcome of it? It‘s beyond ridiculous. What you are writting is pretty unbelievable.

9 hours ago, mSparks said:

Any delay of course has its downsides, but let's hold off complaining the delay is for the wrong reasons until we actually have a better understanding of the actual reasons.

It‘s literally what they admitted in their statement by mentionning the stability of MSFS2024 as the reason to delay it. So the delay is correlated clearly to that. I don‘t think we have to search for any other reasons. Evereyone who has been dealing with statistics and surveys knows that as soon as the one making it has a clear interest towards one of the survey-player, it isn‘t heutral anymore. That‘s what we see here. Nothing else. Take it or leave it.

3 hours ago, Franz007 said:

statement by mentionning the stability of MSFS2024

I missed that, where is it?

6 hours ago, Franz007 said:

You seem to contradict yourself. You literally agreed with the fact that they delayed it because of their business-interests. This automatically means to influence the results. Both are correlated. So how can you still think they have a business interest by delaying it but at the same time believe that they don’t try to change the outcome of it? It‘s beyond ridiculous. What you are writting is pretty unbelievable.

There is no contradiction here. Yes, the timing is a business decision as a I said. But you are confused about the meaning of the word "influence" as it applies here. People's sentiment/behavior may change between November and January, but it is not a result of an influence by Navigraph.  Navigraph does not control how people feel or which sims they use, therefore they cannot be the influence. They are simply taking a snapshot at a moment in time. The issue for you is that you don't like when they are doing it for your personal reasons or agenda. Regardless, the only influence will be Microsoft/Asobo and Laminar with the state of their respective sims.