16 hours ago, SAS443 said:

If you're running a yearly survey or tracking long-term trends, it's usually better to wait until things settle down, no?

I disagree. Not for a yearly survey where you would have to wait 6 months for things to „settle down“. That would make sense for a 5 or 10y survey, not an anually one. With that delay they automatically put a bias in the survey, because they have never delayed it when other sims got freshly released.

4 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

quite frankly, i'm more interested in the v2024 uptake, and the relative position of XP and how much it's grown.

Everybody has that interest and it‘s the purpose of the survey to show exactly that, on a yearly base. So why artificially impacting those results? Why haven‘t they delayed the survey when XP12 was in early beta? It's beyond ridiculous seriously. Why not showing how it is? And next year it will be more solid. It would exactly be interesting to see how many have moved from 2020 to 2024 compared to those parts when XP12 got released vs. XP11. And it would show how good the new version got accepted at it‘s start, a question many want to know because it got discussed a lot.

19 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

Everybody has that interest and it‘s the purpose of the survey to show exactly that, on a yearly base. So why artificially impacting those results? Why haven‘t they delayed the survey when XP12 was in early beta? It's beyond ridiculous seriously. Why not showing how it is? And next year it will be more solid. It would exactly be interesting to see how many have moved from 2020 to 2024 compared to those parts when XP12 got released vs. XP11. And it would show how good the new version got accepted at it‘s start, a question many want to know because it got discussed a lot.

I agree. 

I just don't think there's a conspiracy or payoffs or anything.

If I was Magnus, I'd wait, too. And I probably would've waited when XP v12 launched, too.

2 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I agree. 

I just don't think there's a conspiracy or payoffs or anything.

If I was Magnus, I'd wait, too. And I probably would've waited when XP v12 launched, too.

That shows exactly the problem. It puts an unnecessary bias into the survey.

1 hour ago, Franz007 said:

That shows exactly the problem. It puts an unnecessary bias into the survey.

Commercial or personal?

Imagine you are in the Navigraph meeting room. They have deemed it waste of man-hours and results not as accurate, so they have postponed the survey to protect both their own assets and the outcome from being quickly outdated/misleading.

What would you tell them and where is the business value in your proposition? Should Navigraph not be cautious how they employ their assets? 

I sense a strong pathos from you, and less a rationale one. You want "justice" for a perceived wrongly treatment from 2 years ago. 

But this is a business decision. 

You can elect to portray this decision as shrewd or unfair. It's your prerogative.

6 hours ago, SAS443 said:

results not as accurate

Not as "accurate"? The only things that might lead to "accuracy" issues are either their web developer making any glaring errors in the webpage code or their advertising channels skewing to or away from a specific media outlet (say for e.g. proactively avoiding posting or requesting post bans of any survey url to the .org). The intent of a survey is that of a camera lens: capture the current market status.  Not paint a desired picture. Unless it's a "survey"....

Edited December 9, 20241 yr by blingthinger

8 hours ago, Franz007 said:

 a question many want to know because it got discussed a lot.

A question they clearly know many will not like the answer to. "Maybe" it won't be as bad in a month or two.... fingers crossed pinky promise... lol.

7 hours ago, SAS443 said:

Commercial or personal?

Imagine you are in the Navigraph meeting room. They have deemed it waste of man-hours and results not as accurate, so they have postponed the survey to protect both their own assets and the outcome from being quickly outdated/misleading.

What would you tell them and where is the business value in your proposition? Should Navigraph not be cautious how they employ their assets? 

I sense a strong pathos from you, and less a rationale one. You want "justice" for a perceived wrongly treatment from 2 years ago. 

But this is a business decision. 

You can elect to portray this decision as shrewd or unfair. It's your prerogative.

I seriously don‘t even understand how it is possible to debate that simple fact. A survey captures a moment in time to reflect the actual market situation. As a business-owner I would want to know exactly that and be sure that the newest survey is comparable with the previous ones. If you have already made statistics over time, you will want to be sure that the evolution-curve is based on the same time-unit, otherwise it won‘t allow any comparison with the previous data.

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Not as "accurate

"FlightSim Community Survey until early 2025. This will allow us to capture the sentiment of the community more comprehensively and accurately."

They even said so themselves? Why are you even trying to debate it, this is borderline ridiculous 

Navigraph defines what the purpose of "their" survey is. And their business decision has been to postpone it since current situation - according to their analysis (which they have no obligation to share externally) - is deemed unfit for purpose.

Write to Navigraph and tell them why they should deviate from their decision. What are the main benefits from business perspective. Don't bring arguments what you perceive a survey is, I am sure they are quite clear what their product from 2018 is, and what value it has. 

37 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

As a business-owner I would want to know exactly that and be sure that the newest survey is comparable with the previous ones.

You never responded.

Franz, what is the business value of a survey whose results becomes obsolete in matter of months. Navigraph and you clearly have different takes on this. How do you leverage on those weak results? 

What is your strategy for risk mitigation? Again, this is business and one of their most valued products. They should and must protect it.

1 hour ago, SAS443 said:

Franz, what is the business value of a survey whose results becomes obsolete in matter of months.

pretty much all surveys become obsolete in a matter of months, - that's why you do them regularly.

More pertinent question in this situation is what is the business value of skipping a survey, which is basically what is happening here.

 

52 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

And still nothing intelligent to contribute to the conversation.

This is certainly a great contribution, would'nt you say? 

Basically 1/3 of your post was some mocking and personal remark.

Unable to separate issue from the person, clearly. 

1 hour ago, SAS443 said:

Again, this is business and one of their most valued products. They should and must protect it.

I agree with you. 

MSFS 2024 is the simulator most likely to have the largest impact on their current business. The online flight planner and built in charts in 2024 could have a significant impact on their business. It makes sense for them to delay if they end up with data that more accurately reflect the current state of the market. I've been a Navigraph subscriber for many years and I'm now evaluating whether or not I should renew my subscription in a few months. I am seriously considering canceling but I have not decided yet.  This is just one example of a good business case to delay a month or two if they can obtain more data.

Some can only ever see things as Xplane vs MSFS. Navigraph is not thinking about "bias'. They are thinking about what is best for them as a company.

Edited December 9, 20241 yr by brinx

4 minutes ago, brinx said:

Navigraph is not thinking about "bias'. They are thinking about what is best for them as a company.

Precisely. This is exactly why they should rebrand their survey. They couldn't care less about the neutrality of the results if it didn't help their bottom line. Heaven forbid anyone look at those steam stats! The '24 release was an absolute train wreck compared to '20.