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Navigation:PBN//RNP (LPV)

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1 hour ago, Michael Moe said:

Just to sum this up as it allready has turned into other systems

Anyone knows if LPV is implemented to airliners (aircraft specific).

I am curious to why we have A-D Minimums on approach Charts/plates like those on the RNP28 LSZH as bigger jets (C-D) is invited in here.

Thanks

Michael Moe                             

Quick answer, Michael: most airlines use LPV based on type, installed equipment, and certification. Regarding approach minimums, I would recommend that you consult the Jeppesen charts for descriptions. You’ll find the category and speed range for the aircraft along with the appropriate information.

747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning. 

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  • With WAAS LPV (in North America) it is not necessary to enter the channel number. The channel for a given RNAV-GPS approach is contained in the navigation database and is selected automatically by the

  • Desr Michael, for instance on the modern aibuses or older models with avionics upgrade you have: https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/newsroom/news/2022-06-satellite-based-landing-system And... in

  • Yes, and it's about three hours of training. It's nothing spectacular. We will revisit WX, visibility, airport lighting, runway markings, minimums, enhanced flight vision systems (if used), and crew c

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34 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Quick answer, Michael: most airlines use LPV based on type, installed equipment, and certification. Regarding approach minimums, I would recommend that you consult the Jeppesen charts for descriptions. You’ll find the category and speed range for the aircraft along with the appropriate information.

Thanks , can you or any provide GPS and FMC guidance to Boeing Airbus etc ? How is it integrated ? - that is my curious bug here?

I havent evidenced it for now as i am suspecting it to be the future of new airliners ? (A350 etc)


Thanks Michael Moe 

Edited by Michael Moe

Michael Moe

 

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Really interesting to read all the wealth of knowledge everyone brings to the table about this topic. Several questions I’ve always wondered, but never asked, have been answered here. Thanks to all. Also, SO MANY acronyms! I can’t think of any other industry that relies on them so much. 

  • Author
2 minutes ago, Bdub22 said:

Really interesting to read all the wealth of knowledge everyone brings to the table about this topic. Several questions I’ve always wondered, but never asked, have been answered here. Thanks to all. Also, SO MANY acronyms! I can’t think of any other industry that relies on them so much. 

That is one of the benefit i was aiming about 🙂 i read alot about it to understand , SBAS,GBAS (and all the new acronym for just PBN and RNP) which is quite fun taking RNAV as the fundamentally history.

There is a really good video on youtube that i will link to as it is a good learning curve

Tip Still all RNP-AR -  LPV - LNAV/VNAV is still  to be acknowledge as  none precision approaches btw.

Michael Moe

Michael Moe

 

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39 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

 How is it integrated ?

Ahhhh, the system is part of the aircraft certification and comes with it, unless there is an additional installation.  To execute an approach with Localizer Performance with Vertical Guidance (LPV) criteria, you need a certified WAAS GPS and RAIM capability. The aircraft must be equipped with an LPV-capable Flight Management System (FMS) and a compatible SBAS receiver, such as WAAS or EGNOS.

 Acronym:

EGNOS (European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service).   

Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS)
Satellite-Based Augmentation System (SBAS)
WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) 
 EGNOS (European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service). 
 
Sorry for the text, I'm on an Iphone................

747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning. 

  • Author
36 minutes ago, LRBS said:
Ahhhh, the system is part of the aircraft certification and comes with it, unless there is an additional installation.  To execute an approach with Localizer Performance with Vertical Guidance (LPV) criteria, you need a certified WAAS GPS and RAIM capability. The aircraft must be equipped with an LPV-capable Flight Management System (FMS) and a compatible SBAS receiver, such as WAAS or EGNOS.

 Acronym:

EGNOS (European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service).   

Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS)
Satellite-Based Augmentation System (SBAS)
WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) 
 EGNOS (European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service). 
 
Sorry for the text, I'm on an Iphone................

I am sorry but it seems you all take my question out in small context and its okay 🙂

I still dont believe any of you quite understand the questions i put in the first place as i am (think 🙂 knowledge to this ).

Put it simple (GA has it :G1000 , GTN etc)  : How do you go from LPV to LNAV/VNAV in case of a mall function in a airbus or Boeing ?

There is a downscale from LPV to LNAV/VNAV Baro or just LNAV in PBN/WAAAS/LPV terms.

I still dont believe we have LPV in airliners as allready discussed and frankly its my main question at top 🙂

 

The future on the other hand makes it so much easier to land in areas where GLS/ILS is not up to it and we can put airliners in with SBAS. (Profit)

Michael Moe

Edited by Michael Moe

Michael Moe

 

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2 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

I am sorry but it seems you all take my question out in small context and its okay 🙂

I still dont believe any of you quite understand the questions i put in the first place as i am (think 🙂 knowledge to this ).

Put it simple (GA has it :G1000 , GTN etc)  : How do you go from LPV to LNAV/VNAV in case of a mall function in a airbus or Boeing ?

There is a downscale from LPV to LNAV/VNAV Baro or just LNAV in PBN/WAAAS/LPV terms.

I still dont believe we have LPV in airliners as allready discussed and frankly its my main question at top 🙂

 

The future on the other hand makes it so much easier to land in areas where GLS/ILS is not up to it and we can put airliners in with SBAS. (Profit)

Michael Moe

Please try the RNAV/PBN/RNP 28 LSZH in an Airbus in the sim.

 

Michael Moe

Michael Moe

 

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21 hours ago, jkeyeuk said:

The Fenix aircraft and default 787 as well as the cirrus vision jet have working LPV systems. 

Wrong. The Fenix has no working LPV system. In order to use LPV you have to be able to switch the receiver and enter the LPV Frequency from the Chart. This is not possible in the Fenix.

55 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

I am sorry but it seems you all take my question out in small context and its okay 🙂

I still dont believe any of you quite understand the questions i put in the first place as i am (think 🙂 knowledge to this ).

Put it simple (GA has it :G1000 , GTN etc)  : How do you go from LPV to LNAV/VNAV in case of a mall function in a airbus or Boeing ?

There is a downscale from LPV to LNAV/VNAV Baro or just LNAV in PBN/WAAAS/LPV terms.

I still dont believe we have LPV in airliners as allready discussed and frankly its my main question at top 🙂

 

The future on the other hand makes it so much easier to land in areas where GLS/ILS is not up to it and we can put airliners in with SBAS. (Profit)

Michael Moe

Michael, yes, most of the "airliners" are either equipped or have been upgraded. I explained the requirements in my previous posts. Each aircraft is different, with varying configurations, key strokes, and menu selections. To understand the specific options, messages, and operations, you need to refer to each aircraft's Flight Management Computer (FMC) manual. It can be quite challenging to explain everything without a basic understanding of these systems. We spend hours learning to operate each aircraft type, utilizing Computer-Based Training (CBT), fixed-base simulators, and practicing approaches in full-flight simulators. I believe this clip will help clarify your questions further.

 

 

747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning. 

  • Author
4 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Michael, yes, most of the "airliners" are either equipped or have been upgraded. I explained the requirements in my previous posts. Each aircraft is different, with varying configurations, key strokes, and menu selections. To understand the specific options, messages, and operations, you need to refer to each aircraft's Flight Management Computer (FMC) manual. It can be quite challenging to explain everything without a basic understanding of these systems. We spend hours learning to operate each aircraft type, utilizing Computer-Based Training (CBT), fixed-base simulators, and practicing approaches in full-flight simulators. I believe this clip will help clarify your questions further.

 

 

Very greatful video and thank you for sharing 🙂 . I would believe there is a cadet or two who can benefit from this also 🙂

WOW 🙂

I still dont believe the downgrade is explained and as a main sim pilot of a B737 i still would not put a MDA/DA to LPV btw.

Thanks

Michael Moe

 

Michael Moe

 

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11 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

 still dont believe the downgrade is explained and as a main sim pilot of a B737 i still would not put a MDA/DA to LPV btw.

 

Michael, could you clarify that statement? I don't fully understand it.

747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning. 

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7 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Michael, could you clarify that statement? I don't fully understand it.

Well it was basically about a downgrade from a GA LPV to LNAV/VNAV in an B737 or simular case a GPS jam or etc..

What downgrade procedures is there from LPV ? in a B777 ?

I havent seing any proof of a LPV in ANY B737/A320 yet

 

The day i do ? i can land in almost any place 🙂 ( just)

Michael Moe

 

Edited by Michael Moe

Michael Moe

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Moe said:

Well it was basically about a downgrade from a GA LPV to LNAV/VNAV in an B737 or simular case a GPS jam or etc..

What downgrade procedures is there from LPV ? in a B777 ?

I havent seing any proof of a LPV in ANY B737/A320 yet

 

The day i do ? i can land in almost any place 🙂 ( just)

Michael Moe

 

GO AROUND is a mandatory procedure for any aircraft in the event of signal degradation or GPS interference. It is accompanied by relevant messages while IMC in LPV LNAV/VNAV. Another type of approach might be required in that case. In VFR conditions, you continue the approach to land with normal maneuvering to land in the touchdown zone. 
The proof is in the aircraft manual, covered in the systems section.
Unfortunately, you can't land in just about any place; the airports must be part of the database.  
I forgot to mention those are the standard procedures to be followed; in case of emergency, you can deviate from any procedures and rules; at that point, the sky and ATC are yours. 

Edited by LRBS

747 Captain for the last 39 years, and still learning. 

2 hours ago, Farlis said:

Wrong. The Fenix has no working LPV system. In order to use LPV you have to be able to switch the receiver and enter the LPV Frequency from the Chart. This is not possible in the Fenix.

Although it's not possible to input the channel number, it IS possible to enable it in the EFB in the airline options and the Fenix aircraft WILL fly the LPV approach with FLS indication if this is selected in the FMS approach page and correct settings entered on the MCP.

9800X3D 5090 64 GB RAM

3 hours ago, Farlis said:

Wrong. The Fenix has no working LPV system. In order to use LPV you have to be able to switch the receiver and enter the LPV Frequency from the Chart. This is not possible in the Fenix.

With WAAS LPV (in North America) it is not necessary to enter the channel number. The channel for a given RNAV-GPS approach is contained in the navigation database and is selected automatically by the SBAS portion of the GPS receiver when an LPV RNAV approach is loaded in the FMS.  No manual switching or specific action on the part of the flight crew is required.

It may well be different with GBAS (GLS) which might indeed require entering local channel numbers. I have never worked on a GBAS-equipped aircraft. 

This is how SBAS works in the Rockwell-Collins GPS-4000S GPS receiver. I assume equivalent Honeywell SBAS-enabled GPS receivers work in a similar fashion.

If there are any problems with the SBAS signal (which does not come from the GPS satellite constellation, but from a separate satellite in geostationary orbit), an “SBAS UNAVAILABLE” message will be annunciated on the FMS scratchpad. If there are no issues then the LPV glidepath diamond will automatically appear on the PFD as the approach is commenced. The approach is flown exactly like the equivalent ILS approach. 

Several weeks ago there were extremely strong solar flares with a coronal mass ejection (CME) that produced visible aurora borealis displays across a large part of the continental US and a severe geomagnetic storm. This rendered SBAS unusable for several hours. The FDC released a GPS NOTAM to advise pilots of the outage. During that time, no aircraft anywhere were able to conduct LPV approaches.

Because of the distance to the WAAS satellite, the SBAS signal is weaker than the primary GPS signals, which is why it is negatively impacted by a severe geomagnetic storm.

GBAS does not have that problem because the correction signals come from ground-based transmitters located close to specific airports.

Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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