@JRBarrett Thank you for the nice explanation. On GBAS (GLS), it’s the same: select the LPV RNAV approach, and the system logic will display GLS (like ILS) on the PFD (Boeing or Airbus) indication, while the other side will show the ID and the CHANNEL (like the ILS ID and frequency). None of this requires any intervention. This applies to B748 and A380 types. What’s really great is that this system only needs one ground antenna, which can be used for all runways, unlike the ILS.

4 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

Well it was basically about a downgrade from a GA LPV to LNAV/VNAV in an B737 or simular case a GPS jam or etc..

What downgrade procedures is there from LPV ? in a B777 ?

Wouldn‘t it be exact the same as if an ILS-signal would fail or have an inacuracy? I think that would require to abort your landing and perform a second approach with a downgraded system (RNAV or VLOC) or do an ILS if available? But correct me if I haven‘t understood your question.

6 hours ago, LRBS said:

@JRBarrett Thank you for the nice explanation. On GBAS (GLS), it’s the same: select the LPV RNAV approach, and the system logic will display GLS (like ILS) on the PFD (Boeing or Airbus) indication, while the other side will show the ID and the CHANNEL (like the ILS ID and frequency). None of this requires any intervention. This applies to B748 and A380 types. What’s really great is that this system only needs one ground antenna, which can be used for all runways, unlike the ILS.

Hi , are you saying that you can use SBAS LPV in FMC somehow and the aircraft will select a GLS and show this instead? I find this very confusing .

Michael Moe

6 hours ago, Franz007 said:

Wouldn‘t it be exact the same as if an ILS-signal would fail or have an inacuracy? I think that would require to abort your landing and perform a second approach with a downgraded system (RNAV or VLOC) or do an ILS if available? But correct me if I haven‘t understood your question.

Yes i believe so also but what will you see on the the PFD in both cases if the airliner have a LPV receiver?

I havent seing it myself in an Airbus og Boeing(737 or 320)

In the sim i set the LNAV/VNAV MDA

Michael Moe

49 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

Hi , are you saying that you can use SBAS LPV in FMC somehow and the aircraft will select a GLS and show this instead? I find this very confusing .

Michael Moe

Sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that the same display information is on the PFD. SBAS LPV and GBAS GLS are used for precise navigation, but GBAS is more accurate within a smaller area (coverage). Also, we are certified for autoland on GBAS systems in A380. I better stop here because it will get complicated and very difficult. Anyhow, I hope that this helped you somehow. 

10 hours ago, jkeyeuk said:

Although it's not possible to input the channel number, it IS possible to enable it in the EFB in the airline options and the Fenix aircraft WILL fly the LPV approach with FLS indication if this is selected in the FMS approach page and correct settings entered on the MCP.

Are you sure about FLS and LPV in the Fenix? My understanding of FLS is that this is like IAN in the Boeing with a FMS calculated track allthough with baro//temps correction.

Useful for straight in VOR approaches for instance

LPV is intirely SBAS 

I would not use DA LPV in FLS mode but only the LNAV MDA 

Michael Moe 

 

On 1/2/2025 at 10:01 PM, jcomm said:

Desr Michael, for instance on the modern aibuses or older models with avionics upgrade you have:

https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/newsroom/news/2022-06-satellite-based-landing-system

And... in the Boeing world:

Slide 1

Just to sum my question up

Here is the answer

SLS in airbus (properly not simulated in MSFS or MSFS2024)

Boeing , CURENT study but dont know how it looks like on the PFD

Thank you all

Michael Moe

 

You are correct Michael. FLS is NOT LPV.

The correct indications on the Airbus PFD for an LPV approach is called SLS (Satellite based Landing System).

The indications will be G/S and LOC in green and SLS at the right bottom in Magenta.

In the Fenix you can only do FLS approaches which have the indications "F-G/S" and "F-LOC" in green and FLS in Magenta at the right bottom.

 

I read somewhere that the IFly 737MAX has LPV capability, but since I don't own that one and couldn't find a video of anyone doing such an approach in it, I'm not sure. But the other available airliners for MSFS don't have that capability.

Edited January 4, 20251 yr by Farlis

22 minutes ago, Farlis said:

You are correct Michael. FLS is NOT LPV.

The correct indications on the Airbus PFD for an LPV approach is called SLS (Satellite based Landing System).

The indications will be G/S and LOC in green and SLS at the right bottom in Magenta.

In the Fenix you can only do FLS approaches which have the indications "F-G/S" and "F-LOC" in green and FLS in Magenta at the right bottom.

 

I read somewhere that the IFly 737MAX has LPV capability, but since I don't own that one and couldn't find a video of anyone doing such an approach in it, I'm not sure. But the other available airliners for MSFS don't have that capability.

Thanks,  yes. I recommend reading jcomm links to both Airbus and Boeing with illustration on Airbus at least.

Interesting about iFly Max as i own it. Will check the Manual

Thanks Michael Moe 

What an interesting thread!

2 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

I find this very confusing

Count me in, and I am pretty sure 75% of irl pilots using their shiny avionics suites on a daily basis feel the same. Airline pilots are probably better off in this regard, as they can often refer to their company SOP and don't have to bother with all the layers, that make this so complicated: regulations, equipment capabilty, equipment certification, pilot certification......

41 minutes ago, Farlis said:

The correct indications on the airbus PFD for an LPV approach is called SLS (Satellite based Landing System).

The indications will be G/S and LOC in green and SLS at the right bottom in Magenta.

Had to look this up, as I wasn't aware of that. Obviously this is standard in the newer A350 and A380 and nowadays available (airline option?) for the A320 family as well. However, in older A320 family aircraft, LPV approaches can be flown in FINAL APP, and I recently flew the RNP Z Rwy05 (AR) at LPMA (Madeira Funchal) in the FENIX, which followed the lateral and vertical path perfectly down to (RNP)minimums. The PMDG 737 does that as well (not sure about the PFD indications), although there was some deviation from the lateral path and I had to take over manually before reaching minimums, as the aircraft turned brutally towards the terrain.

As a rule of thumb I would think that the navigation equipment only lists those approaches that it is able to handle from a technical standpoint. Regulations and certification however may be a different matter.

 

Edited January 4, 20251 yr by Tom_L

2 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

Yes i believe so also but what will you see on the the PFD in both cases if the airliner have a LPV receiver?

I havent seing it myself in an Airbus og Boeing(737 or 320)

In the sim i set the LNAV/VNAV MDA

Michael Moe

I am not an airliner pilot but I would assume that you put the minimums according to the LPV-approach charts (200 AGL as baro pressure) and if the signal becomes inacurate during the approach you go-around as soon as you realize the inacuracy…at least before reaching that minimum…

43 minutes ago, Tom_L said:

What an interesting thread!

Count me in, and I am pretty sure 75% of irl pilots using their shiny avionics suites on a daily basis feel the same. Airline pilots are probably better off in this regard, as they can often refer to their company SOP and don't have to bother with all the layers, that make this so complicated: regulations, equipment capabilty, equipment certification, pilot certification......

Had to look this up, as I wasn't aware of that. Obviously this is standard in the newer A350 and A380 and nowadays available (airline option?) for the A320 family as well. However, in older A320 family aircraft, LPV approaches can be flown in FINAL APP, and I recently flew the RNP Z Rwy05 (AR) at LPMA (Madeira Funchal) in the FENIX, which followed the lateral and vertical path perfectly down to (RNP)minimums. The PMDG 737 does that as well (not sure about the PFD indications), although there was some deviation from the lateral path and I had to take over manually before reaching minimums, as the aircraft turned brutally towards the terrain.

As a rule of thumb I would think that the navigation equipment only lists those approaches that it is able to handle from a technical standpoint. Regulations and certification however may be a different matter.

 

Yes RNP-AR is a whole other game and is based on stored navigation . Curved RF legs is also typically for these SID/STAR/APP which works on MSFS and the new simmer aircrafts as well.(PMDG,Fenix,FSL,iFly etc)

Its LNAV /VNAV mode and ANP/RNP on the ND is yours to check plus vertical minima in the FMC

Michael Moe 

Edited January 4, 20251 yr by Michael Moe

2 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

Are you sure about FLS and LPV in the Fenix? My understanding of FLS is that this is like IAN in the Boeing with a FMS calculated track allthough with baro//temps correction.

Useful for straight in VOR approaches for instance

LPV is intirely SBAS 

I would not use DA LPV in FLS mode but only the LNAV MDA 

Michael Moe 

 

You may be right-I think I've been putting all the non precision approaches into one category

For info, here is an AIRBUS table of the different guidances (ILS, GLS, RNAV (GNSS), RNP AR, etc.) and the manufacturer's recommendations for each of them.

The size of the table being important, I attach it in pdf to download for those interested of course

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hIDgww2azEOtGINYuimxvou_0XlrRFKK/view?usp=drive_link

 

 

Edited January 4, 20251 yr by Area

4 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

Are you sure about FLS and LPV in the Fenix? My understanding of FLS is that this is like IAN in the Boeing with a FMS calculated track allthough with baro//temps correction.

Useful for straight in VOR approaches for instance

LPV is intirely SBAS 

I would not use DA LPV in FLS mode but only the LNAV MDA 

Michael Moe 

 

Any approach which uses GBAS (as opposed to SBAS) will be marked “GLS” on the approach chart. 

One good place to test this (for a sim aircraft) is San Francisco KSFO, which has GLS approaches to runways 19 L & R and 28 L & R. KSFO was one of the original FAA test airports in the US when GBAS was first implemented here.

If a particular aircraft is capable of flying a GBAS approach, the “GLS” approaches should appear as selectable options in the FMS. If it is not equipped for GBAS, they will not be present in the FMS.

That’s on a real aircraft - I don’t know if sim versions properly filter out GLS procedures if the aircraft is not equipped for them.

I know that the Navigraph Nav database for the Aerosoft CRJ will show RNP-AR approaches, even though a real CRJ is not (and cannot) be certified for RNP-AR.

Other US airports with available GLS approaches include KEWR, KCHS and KIAH.

LPV approaches are not marked as such in the FMS. You have to consult the approach chart to see if it has LPV minima as an option. While GBAS is only available at a few US airports, probably the majority of US RNAV-GPS approach procedures have the LPV option.