Hi , didnt know exactly were to put this question so it may be moved to a better place.

I was wonder which airliners(aircraft) have LPV installed as i can see on some charts minimums is specified for all classes A-D .

Normally i would only suspect them to be LNAV/VNAV or RNP AR with Baro ?

Maybe its for future installment?

Thanks Michael Moe

Edited January 2, 20251 yr by Michael Moe

Desr Michael, for instance on the modern aibuses or older models with avionics upgrade you have:

https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/newsroom/news/2022-06-satellite-based-landing-system

And... in the Boeing world:

Slide 1

Edited January 2, 20251 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, Michael Moe said:

Hi , didnt know exactly were to put this question so it may be moved to a better place.

I was wonder which airliners(aircraft) have LPV installed as i can see on some charts minimums is specified for all classes A-D .

Normally i would only suspect them to be LNAV/VNAV or RNP AR with Baro ?

Maybe its for future installment?

Thanks Michael Moe

The Fenix aircraft and default 787 as well as the cirrus vision jet have working LPV systems. 

I have tried in the Citation jets and ini a320 without success.

I don't think the default 737 max has this.

I’m not sure what does it means LPV installed? LPV is  RNAV approach with vertical guidance similar to ILS, but performed solely by IFR certified GPS with WAAS (wide area augmentation system) or capable RNAV equipment that most corporate and scheduled airline posses .

For example IRL I own Cessna 172P. After installing GPS with WAAS capability I can shoot any LPV approaches without any extra navigation equipment. Note LPV approach can be as precise as ILS and even  with  minimus similar to ILS yet it is still considered as none precision approach 

The TDS GTN750 and the WT GNS530 offer LPV approaches.

I dont think any airliners have LPV in them, do they? 

18 minutes ago, fakeflyer737 said:

I dont think any airliners have LPV in them, do they? 

Both Boeing and Airbus have LPV (SBAS) options. My employer flies CRJ-200s (used for corporate not airline operations), all of our aircraft have LPV capability and have had since 2017. The Collins STC that adds LPV approach capability is available to any CRJ, and I assume at least some airlines use it.

LPV uses GPS corrections from WAAS satellites and is only available in North America. It is widely used by General Aviation.

Another system is GBAS which is now widely used by airlines. GBAS uses local, ground-based transmitters to supply GPS corrections to aircraft approaching specific airports. GBAS approaches carry a “GLS” designation. In the Boeing world, all 747-8 aircraft were delivered with GLS capability from the factory (for example). 

One US airport with several GLS approaches is KSFO.

Edited January 3, 20251 yr by JRBarrett

25 minutes ago, fakeflyer737 said:

I dont think any airliners have LPV in them, do they? 

Almost all airlines have special certifications for LPV and train pilots for these operations. 

In short, aircraft, airlines, and crew need to meet some certification requirements.

These approaches are a savior and enhance security, especially in Africa, specific military locations, and north/south pole operations.

Please see @JRBarrett and @jcomm posts.

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Almost all airlines have special certifications for LPV and train pilots for these operations. 

In short, aircraft, airlines, and crew need to meet some certification requirements.

These approaches are a savior and enhance security, especially in Africa, specific military locations, and north/south pole operations.

Please see @JRBarrett and @jcomm posts.

Just wondering what is specific training requires for LPV it just like ILS? 

2 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

Just wondering what is specific training requires for LPV it just like ILS? 

Yes, and it's about three hours of training. It's nothing spectacular. We will revisit WX, visibility, airport lighting, runway markings, minimums, enhanced flight vision systems (if used), and crew coordination. We will also discuss A/C equipment and capabilities and airline authorization. Ultimately, you waste more time with a few approaches in sim.

All these agencies justify their existence and create additional procedures solely to claim that they have reinvented the wheel. 

6 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

Both Boeing and Airbus have LPV (SBAS) options. My employer flies CRJ-200s (used for corporate not airline operations), all of our aircraft have LPV capability and have had since 2017. The Collins STC that adds LPV approach capability is available to any CRJ, and I assume at least some airlines use it.

LPV uses GPS corrections from WAAS satellites and is only available in North America. It is widely used by General Aviation.

Another system is GBAS which is now widely used by airlines. GBAS uses local, ground-based transmitters to supply GPS corrections to aircraft approaching specific airports. GBAS approaches carry a “GLS” designation. In the Boeing world, all 747-8 aircraft were delivered with GLS capability from the factory (for example). 

One US airport with several GLS approaches is KSFO.

LPV is SBAS and EGNOS in Europe supports this. GBAS is like you say groundbased like GLS and more complicated to implement in airports.

Really crazy that even a Cessna 172 G1000 can now achieve ILS CAT1 conditions

There is special channel code for LPV on the charts so i still havent seing an Boeing or Airbus with this implemented. 

I just wondered since there is A-D minimums on the chart dor for instance RNP28 LSZH.

Michael Moe

5 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

LPV uses GPS corrections from WAAS satellites and is only available in North America. It is widely used by General Aviation.

And in Europe we fly LPV approaches by using EGNOS (PRN:s 123/126/127/136)

 

4 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

LPV is SBAS and EGNOS in Europe supports this. GBAS is like you say groundbased like GLS and more complicated to implement in airports.

Really crazy that even a Cessna 172 G1000 can now achieve ILS CAT1 conditions

There is special channel code for LPV on the charts so i still havent seing an Boeing or Airbus with this implemented. 

I just wondered since there is A-D minimums on the chart dor for instance RNP28 LSZH.

Michael Moe

Yes, LPV is regional. In North America the system is WAAS which comes from a geostationary satellite. A WAAS-enabled GPS would not work in Europe, and a European EGNOS-enabled GPS would not work in North America.

From looking at Boeing sales literature, I think GBAS is more widely used in the airlines, as it works anywhere in the world that has the necessary ground equipment, and also supports curved legs. GBAS supports minimums similar to LPV

A regional airline that flies only in the US would probably opt for WAAS/LPV, as it would be simpler and less expensive to implement in an aircraft that did not already have it. When it was installed in our CRJs, it required only upgraded GPS receivers and the installation of a software update to the FMS computers.

Edited January 3, 20251 yr by JRBarrett
D

On our 748 and 380, as a standard, we have Collins Aerospace GLU-925, which uses the GBAS data for more accuracy. We thought that the primary function of the GLU-925 is to receive and process differential correction data from ground stations, significantly enhancing the accuracy of GPS positioning, particularly during landing approaches. While it primarily uses GPS, GBAS with ground-based augmentation, the GLU-925 can also integrate signals from other navigation systems like ILS (Instrument Landing System), depending on availability. By utilizing ground data, the GLU-925, GBAS enables aircraft to perform Category III landings, allowing for very low visibility operations with high precision. 

Just to sum this up as it allready has turned into other systems

Anyone knows if LPV is implemented to airliners (aircraft specific).

I am curious to why we have A-D Minimums on approach Charts/plates like those on the RNP28 LSZH as bigger jets (C-D) is invited in here.

Thanks

Michael Moe                             

Edited January 3, 20251 yr by Michael Moe