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Tom Allensworth

Airbus loses it's last customer for the A380F

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>It'll be educational to watch the bickering spin up to full>PRF as this adds fuel to the EADS implosion and spins off even>more cuts on the unproductive Airbus production lines. Watch>the nationalism kick in here...this is going to be a very>interesting test of European unity...German and French unions>in an all-out catfight for the scraps.I think Airbus has been doing bad moves lately, and I don't like at all the A380 and its concept. Market problems are the obvious aftermath.That said, I find really sad this sort of pro-american/anti-european stance. Competition is always a good thing, and while I can "support" one company or the other, I really wouldn't be glowing with joy (or hoping) for the implosion of either Airbus or Boeing.Marco

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I don't find this post Anti-European or Pro American. This is about the aviation and business world on a very global scale. Do you think there are no American companies which are part of the A380F's production? How will this affect them? People bad mouth America all the time and while it's more subtle on these forums, it still happens. So don't be sad, develop a thicker skin.Jeff

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>I don't find this post Anti-European or Pro American. This>is about the aviation and business world on a very global>scale. Do you think there are no American companies which are>part of the A380F's production? How will this affect them? >People bad mouth America all the time and while it's more>subtle on these forums, it still happens. So don't be sad,>develop a thicker skin.>>JeffWell, if that's the case, then I beg pardon. But then, how come is Scott always attacking non-US things and defending US things? And there's nothing wrong with that.Just, I think it's excessive wishing in Airbus or Boeing going OOB, since their competition has been and is a good thing. :)Marco

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I've been all over the globe and have met some great people from various countries, being prior military I'm sure Bob has too, and without speaking for him, I'm sure he feels the same. While world peace is a long way off, it's important for all of us to be open-minded and respect one another and I like to think that the simming community has for the most part done just that. Back to the original subject, I will say that being a simmmer and an aviation enthusiast, I for one do not want to see any either company fail. The 380 was quite an ambitious concept. Since its inception, I've monitored any news about it with interest and of course I would like to see the day that on my drive home I see a 380 landing at KLAS.Jeff

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>I've been all over the globe and have met some great people>from various countries, being prior military I'm sure Bob has>too, and without speaking for him, I'm sure he feels the same.> While world peace is a long way off, it's important for all>of us to be open-minded and respect one another and I like to>think that the simming community has for the most part done>just that. Nice and shareable words Jeff!Once I heard the following quote, "The ones who want the war the least are the military, because they now what the war is."Respect Scott, sorry for the personal attack and back to enjoying flight and flight simulators, be it Airbus, Boeing or Ilyushin. :)Marco

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Anti-European? I know of no such animal. Anti Americanism? It's all the rage, world-wide.Face facts. Airbus is the most heavily propped airliner company in the history of mankind. If it were an American company, it would be as dead as the DeLorean Motor Company. Lee Iacocca called. If you can find a better plane....~EwingKATLAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store, not a government agency.MSI K8N Neo2 PlatinumAMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz2GB Corsair PC-3200 512x4 Dual Channel CL2.5 DDR DIMM eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3Sound Blaster Audigy LSOCZ Powerstream 420WWinXPPro (SP1)

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If you read what I've written over the years, I've criticized lots of American things, too. Things like the apathetic lack of personal responsibility on the part of many residents of New Orleans that put them into harm's way, only to find them standing outside the Superdome with their unprepared hands out demanding the government take care of them like they've come to expect for their whole lives.This is really bigger than Airbus. My issue with Airbus is not a EU vs US one, but is borne of a sense of dismay over the unethical subsidies that have carried the company so many years. That, coupled with a waning work ethic (I lived in Europe for 5 years, and watched the work week decline in a number of countries to 35 hours). I have been waiting for Airbus to demonstrate the downside...for the erosion eating away at their ability to competitively produce to become clear and apparent, and this they are indeed doing.This is what socialism is. This is what socialism does. It makes a society weak and uncompetitive. As I watch many EU countries practically dismantling their militaries and the industrial capacity they need to defend themselves--even as Vladmir Putin shows them in easy to understand terms that the Old Russia is not dead, and Iran moves itself closer to becoming the first completely irrational nuclear actor on the world stage--I wonder who they expect will come rescue them from the equivalent of the EU Superdome when the s*** next hits the fan?What I want to see is a fairly competitive EU taking on their responsibilities to help keep the world a safe place...not the EU that sat waiting for others to come solve the Balkan crisis as it exploded unchallenged into organized genocide right in their back yard.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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Good post bob, my thoughts are similar.I'd like to see the A380 go...but does this mean that there are zero orders for the A380? Or is that just the -F model? I thought Singapore Airlines or one of those Far East airlines was ordering the A380.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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Just the 380F without any orders on the books at all.The pax 380 has also lost a lot of orders...and Singapore Airlines is going to put the wood to EADS in a major way for the delays...their contract with EADS has some very nasty penalties for untimely delivery.And it's likely to get worse with dueling nationalism beginning to take hold...French vs German unions in a veritable strike-off.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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>This is what socialism is. This is what socialism does. It>makes a society weak and uncompetitive. Amen.Michael J.

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Never mind what?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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>What I want to see is a fairly competitive EU taking on their>responsibilities to help keep the world a safe place...not the>EU that sat waiting for others to come solve the Balkan crisis>as it exploded unchallenged into organized genocide right in>their back yard.>I fully agree about the Balkan crisis, it's a dark chapter in EU history, but Iraq has later shown that the confrontational, military-backed policies of the Bush administration isn't always the proper solution either. Sometimes you just have to face that you cannot control the whole world. Would it be the end of the world if Iran had nuclear weapons? Very likely not.-

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>> Sometimes you just have to>face that you cannot control the whole world. Would it be the>end of the world if Iran had nuclear weapons? Very likely>not.>>-

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The thing about democracies is that they never take a direct course to where they are going. Every few years, there are elections, and the people of a democratic nation choose leaders that take them forward along different courses. It's the long-term trend that's important. And the long-term trend of the US certainly cannot be characterized by the last 6 years of the Bush administration.>Would it be the end of the world if Iran had nuclear weapons?I don't know. But I believe it would likely result in at least a regional nuclear war, which even on a reduced scale would be a tremendous environmental and economic disaster for the entire world. And it might very well be the end of the world for a number of mideast countries, at least for the next 5,000-10,000 years or so.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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I take the view that Iran, like other nations that have nuclear weapons would never use them. Some of the most aggressive nations in the world already have nuclear weapons and have never used them, like Israel, Pakistan and India (in conflict with each other), China, Russia (cold war for 50 years under various extreme leaders) and lately North Korea. Nuclear weapons is something you keep to prevent attacks and gain diplomatic weight, not something you go out and use on a whim. Israel (itself a religious fundamentalist state in the guise of a western democracy) would of course hate to see the balance shifted. From a US standpoint the old arch enemy Iran may look like a completely irrational regime, but that is mostly talk (from both sides). There are plenty of well educated people in the population and they know that an attack on Israel would likely be the end of Iran. For the time being the only ones attacking other nations are the supposed good guys - from a western perspective - Israel and the US.-

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Easy for you to say when you live near the North Pole.

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Interesting geopolitical points of view but what does all this banter have to do with the original post? It's getting so far off topic that the thread is going south fast.As for Airbus cancelling the A380F, as much as I don't believe the A380 will be sold in great quantities, it was the only option Airbus had at this time. With only 10 firm A380F orders taking up engineering resources that could be better utilized getting the A380 back on track and the A350 rolling I think Airbus did the right thing. The loss of the A380F, in the short term, may look like a blow to Airbus but it shows some sort of commitment to concentrate on cleaning things up.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpgwww.SSTSIM.com

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>I take the view that Iran, like other nations that have>nuclear weapons would never use them. >-

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>Easy for you to say when you live near the North Pole.I'd say I live closer to Iran than anyone on US soil.>Not forgetting that Iran is ruled by a radical fanatic who is on record >as saying that he would like to see "Israel wiped of the map" I dont >like the idea of him getting his hands on nukes.But even he knows that he would only get one strike before being wiped out himself. That's how nuclear war is, and that's why nobody uses those weapons. Even North Korea (and if Kim Jung Il isn't a lunatic...) settled for blackmail. Ahmadinejad's status as a lunatic may also be somewhat blown up, since he speaks more freely when he's pretty much an outcast from the diplomatic circuit. The anti-Israel sentiments are common in the region and easy to understand (though not condone) even for an outsider.-

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Your post is blatantly political and has no place here.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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Too many of the posts in this thread are blatantly political.The Moderators have clamped down on abusive posts and I believe that we should all think long and hard before introducing politics into any thread. It inevitably seems to lead to xenophobia - anti US and anti EU sentiments - and arguments about the merits of capitalism and socialism, etc etc. They inevitably generate more heat than light and usually lead to the thread being locked - often before the real subject has been fully developed.I can find many other forums to discuss politics in where the points are fully developed. I come here to discuss flight simulation, not to read a limited sub-set of political views.

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Well, can't say I didn't see this coming...UPS just cancelled their entire order for the A380F after EADS stopped work on the F (apparently without telling their 380F customers...err...I mean customer, without the "s" at the end).http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/03/02...reut/index.htmlIt'll be educational to watch the bickering spin up to full PRF as this adds fuel to the EADS implosion and spins off even more cuts on the unproductive Airbus production lines. Watch the nationalism kick in here...this is going to be a very interesting test of European unity...German and French unions in an all-out catfight for the scraps.CheerioBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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