1 hour ago, jcomm said:

@Litjan, what 747s do you fly?

I used to be adicted to Aerowinx ( mid nineties last Century ) PS1 and then PSX since 2014 🙂

747-400 and -8

 

51 minutes ago, Litjan said:

747-400 and -8

 

I guess the -8 should be SSG, and what about the -400? mSparks?

Now, helis wise, there's in most X-Plane helis an effect I can't really understand if it results from some aerodynamics model or gauge model quirk, or if it is simply like IRL?

In pretty much **any** helicopter I've used in X-Plane, now XP12, the "ball" in the turn coordinator will be centered only if I fly sideways, specially when there's wind.

If I try to fly with the longitudinal axis aligned with my flight path then the ball will be well displaced, and will move a bit more to the center as I reach really high speeds.

I think I understand helicopter aerodynamics, at least the basics, like for instance the "transverse flow effect"... 

Edited April 2, 20251 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

will be centered only if I fly sideways, specially when there's wind

That was an XP bug, tbh one I thought had been fixed.

But of course, if there is cross wind, you will need tilt slightly into it to counter it trying to blow you away.

Some helis also had their own issues back in the day.

Oh my we've come a long way... From that to

in six short years.... wow.

Edited April 2, 20251 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

I guess the -8 should be SSG, and what about the -400? mSparks?

While both may be great - I prefer the real ones. Plus I get paid if I fly them 🙂

 

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

In pretty much **any** helicopter I've used in X-Plane, now XP12, the "ball" in the turn coordinator will be centered only if I fly sideways, specially when there's wind.

Helicopters will always need a tiny bit of bank to offset the lateral force from the tail rotor. So opposed to aircraft, it would be perfectly normal for the helicopter to have a slight bank - and you need to apply enough pedal force to keep the nose from yawing.

I believe that helicopter design may make some amemds for this - as in having a vertical stabilizer that will create yaw force in forward flight to alleviate the need for the tail rotor to create a lot of side-force, for example.

Wind should have no influence on the coordination of your flight (what the ball shows), except when maneuvering in relation to the ground (and compensating for drift while hovering in a crosswind, for example).

To see what is going on, I recommend turning on the DATA OUTPUT values for "Beta" (the drift angle) and then you can see whether you are flying coordinated (and if the ball is correct) or not.

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

In pretty much **any** helicopter I've used in X-Plane, now XP12, the "ball" in the turn coordinator will be centered only if I fly sideways, specially when there's wind.

If I try to fly with the longitudinal axis aligned with my flight path then the ball will be well displaced, and will move a bit more to the center as I reach really high speeds.

Maybe the weathervaning effect in X-Plane helicopters is less than it should be, so in forward flight they fly sideways with centered ball. But it would require doing flight tests in XP vs a real helicopter to investigate further.

1 hour ago, Litjan said:

While both may be great - I prefer the real ones. Plus I get paid if I fly them 🙂

 

Then you should try Aerowinx 😁

5 hours ago, Litjan said:

 

Wind should have no influence on the coordination of your flight (what the ball shows), except when maneuvering in relation to the ground (and compensating for drift while hovering in a crosswind, for example).

 

Indeed, as with any aircraft, unless you take an inertial reference, like a track on the surface, and that's why I think it's strange that it manifests even more in the presence of winds?

Murmur has made a plausible suggestion.

I'll have to look at it and start showing some variables to the Output, like the one you suggested too !

 

Edited April 2, 20251 yr by jcomm

51 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I'll have to look at it and start showing some variables to the Output, like the one you suggested too !

What you want to look at is the "slip" variable - not the beta. The slip is the difference between the apparent "down" (the way a ball dropped from your hand would fall) and the vertical axis of the aircraft. The slip is also indicated in the DATA OUTPUT field number 18 (I would post a screenshot if Avsim did not have a screenshot functionality that is from the early 90s...so I can´t be bothered).

The slip is different from the beta (relative wind) that a "string" attached to the windscreen would show (like in gliders).

Edited April 2, 20251 yr by Litjan

In this video, just as in many others, I don't see that considerable "ball" displacement that is present in some X-Plane helis :

 

 

Edited April 2, 20251 yr by jcomm

Well,

I believe it's addon related after all, and not Xp12.1 latest RC core...

I tested with the default R22 and with the Bell 212 and they both behave correctly and I can fly perfectly aligned with a "centred" ball.

A few addons helis I downloaded from the .Org, probably didn't get any update for the latest state of Xp12's FM, so, those do show the displacement.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_DEX-7NuqU

Check how the "sideslip indicator ball" behaves on this freeware SA315B Lama, even during autorotation.

 

Edited April 3, 20251 yr by jcomm

Out of curiosity, that sideslip present in some FS 2024 helis too 🙂

 

 

Since starting flying helis in XP, I'm considering going for a PPL(H), but I can't really find a school in the vicinity that does not have Robinsons.

 

On 4/2/2025 at 4:16 AM, UrgentSiesta said:

For X-Plane rotary wing, my current fav is the JRX Bell 407. IMHO it has the "just right" balance of hands-on operations with some SAS, steam gauges, & basic GPS. And I've been lucky enough to ride on a few of them over the years, so there's a bit of nostalgia, too.

The 407 has SAS? I mean, it's inherently more stable than, say, the Bo-105, but I haven't found a SAS switch in there (yet).

 

On 4/2/2025 at 7:55 AM, Litjan said:

Laminar is sporting many well-done heliports, Scenery Gateway artists have fleshed a lot of them out nicely

A lot of the pads I encounter that haven't been touched by artists are completely overgrown by vegetation or buried half in the ground. Fortunately, X-Plane does not havee tree collision detection. 😬

1 hour ago, Bjoern said:

The 407 has SAS? I mean, it's inherently more stable than, say, the Bo-105, but I haven't found a SAS switch in there (yet).

I think I've got it confused with the OH-58D 🤣

On 4/2/2025 at 11:48 AM, mSparks said:

That was an XP bug, tbh one I thought had been fixed.

But of course, if there is cross wind, you will need tilt slightly into it to counter it trying to blow you away.

Some helis also had their own issues back in the day.

Oh my we've come a long way... From that to

in six short years.... wow.

Can I ask where did you find Balkan Helicopters scenery? I'm considering doing their little base, as my first steps into creating scenery. Do you have some other bonus sceneries for Belgrade and vicinity?

Cheers!