There are some of these "MSFS individuals" arguing why they should have to use (scenery) addons for XP when they have it "all inclusive" in MSFS. Uummm ... well ... ok ... However, they find it completely natural to use a lot of (scenery) addons in MSFS too and and don't even think about it (kind of hoarding). We all know that the default airports in MSFS are quite poor: e.g. partly towers on the wrong side of the runway, trees on the grass between the runways and the taxiways - i.e. waaay too close to the runway, poor/wrong runway markings etc. - so I can even understand the "need" of airport addons.
Wasn't it the wet dream to never have to buy (scenery) addons again, since the MSFS has such a great scenery? But I digress ...

On the other hand, in XP we have default planes which could count as "study level" in MSFS (they have hundreds of failures implemented to name only one point - whereas in MSFS2024 failures were completely omitted). If you argue like this, the "individuals from the other side" 😉 , respond that you have to buy addons. But ... why should I buy addons, if I have it "all inclusive" in XP? 😄 

It's no news 🙂, MSFS is mainly built to please the masses with what they think is aviation (e.g. passengers walking through the docking fingers) whereas XP ... we here in this part of the forum know where XP comes from. It's simply ...

6 hours ago, jcomm said:

... two Worlds!

It's like War Thunder and DCS, and yet War Thunder as a lot more users Worldwide and surely gives their software house a lot more income than ED get's from their paid modules for DCS, and yet in terms of detail, accuracy, etc... no one will even try to put War Thunder ahead of DCS...

 

3 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I think it has always been this. 

I genuinely preferred the lighting & scenery of the early XP v11 versions over P3D v4 by a good bit. Along with the other advantages of XP, of course.

Ironically, it was DCS World which pointed me towards Prepar3D.

I had never even looked into P3D until I found out (from DCSW players) about the A2A warbirds, MilViz's Advanced series, and VRS' SuperBug.

And it mostly stayed just at those handful of add-on developers because there wasn't anything like them available in XP.

So, ironically, I preferred XP in part because it looked better than P3D!

But now, of course, the roles have flipped in that regard...

Edited June 15, 2025Jun 15 by UrgentSiesta
Autocorrect corrections

1 hour ago, Franz007 said:

I don’t really care if some folks don’t want to even try some freeware addons to massively extend the ground-scenery (one of the few areas where XP lacks, together with antialiasing).

Including satellite-imageries like for example World enhancement offers, is not going to happen, since this would be illegal and Laminar would get in big trouble if they didn’t licence the data (that can easily cost a few thousands a year. Per user! So way too much).

I know about extended night lighting, are there daytime option available to extend the outer ring? If so, can you name them?

Thanks

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Reminder that XP "facilitated" "free" and easy ortho long before any other sim package. In fact, that's the sim platform that showed us what was possible.

 

Yeah those legal fees would add up quickly! Now...if only Austin would get busy and conjure up some sort of billion-dollar government-funded satellite-based visible-light acquisition project (with a healthy side of military application), for which XP could be a fun side-gig/advertising-front for...

It only facilitated it in the same way that Linux facilitated servers, etc.

And that obviously never benefitted Apple or MS...

I'm talking about ideas where LR can (literally) capitalize on ways to extend XP in such a way as to draw net new customers in, keep borderline simmers who drift to MSFS, and to capture at least some of the dollars that otherwise go entirely to 3rd Parties.

Like I can't for the life of me understand how the XP Marketplace isn't the literal #2 priority at LR.

Talk about a potential cash cow...

Obviously there are no easy paths to take.

Some master-class mental conflation there. Who's to say they aren't prioritizing the Store even #1 right now? Do you have inside info? Do share!!

All of which has 0.0% to do with the legality of reselling ortho or directly hooking XP clients up to ortho servers. They proactively make sure ortho-friendly tools do work and function. It's appeared in bug fix lists many times in the recent past. It's as facilitated as it legally can be. Good thing you're not their lawyer!

2 hours ago, Franz007 said:

I don’t really care if some folks don’t want to even try some freeware addons to massively extend the ground-scenery (one of the few areas where XP lacks, together with antialiasing).

Including satellite-imageries like for example World enhancement offers, is not going to happen, since this would be illegal and Laminar would get in big trouble if they didn’t licence the data (that can easily cost a few thousands a year. Per user! So way too much).

See, this is the rather defeatist "Can't" attitude.

It's always very easy to come up with reasons something "isn't possible".

But it seems there's always a few people who come along and prove that it is, indeed.

Just because it isn't possible to do it the same old way doesn't mean that a new way won't work.

1 minute ago, blingthinger said:

Some master-class mental conflation there. Who's to say they aren't prioritizing the Store even #1 right now? Do you have inside info? Do share!!

All of which has 0.0% to do with the legality of reselling ortho or directly hooking XP clients up to ortho servers. They proactively make sure ortho-friendly tools do work and function. It's appeared in bug fix lists many times in the recent past. It's as facilitated as it legally can be. Good thing you're not their lawyer!

How long does it really take to stand up an e-com store...?

Do you think the guy who runs the .org is so far advanced over LR's team...?

Like I said, there are ways to accomplish things when the challenges are looked at from new perspectives.

Good thing lawyers don't run the world!

Between them and the politicians, they pretty much do. Oh wait. They're the same persons.

Now...how you jumped from ortho to e-com store...wait maybe you would make a great politician!

29 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Just because it isn't possible to do it the same old way doesn't mean that a new way won't work.

Well, I took a look at the licence-costs and as long as those are not drastically droping, I doubt many users would be ready to pay a few thousand bucks every year.

56 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I know about extended night lighting, are there daytime option available to extend the outer ring? If so, can you name them?

Thanks

I think you missunderstood my post. I was talking about map enhancement, that would be completely illegal to use in a commercial product (yes the paid version of that addon is illegal and could get shut down every moment, something Laminar wouldn’t want to deal with. I don’t know what you mean about extended lights and the daytime-ring, sorry.

Edited June 15, 2025Jun 15 by Franz007

11 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Anyhow, XP is great as is, but in today's world, let's face it, it's sadly become an "acquired taste".

Taking the food and drink analogy here - is that really a bad thing? I did not like my first beer, and I did not like my first glass of wine 😉.

17 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

How long does it really take to stand up an e-com store...?

Do you think the guy who runs the .org is so far advanced over LR's team...?

Here is the thing. Not tooting the horn... but the LR store kinda is more advanced. From major systems like "X-Plane Identity" (Identity is more than just a proxy for the store btw), to more mundane things like... internationalisation.

 

But we know users won't take our word for it. All you have to know is... the Store is very much an active project! 

I just want to throw into the ring that I think the new flight lessons by Austin are a great leap forward in this respect. really do a very good job of showing how good even default XP can look now, while also being suitable for a wide audience from novice to pro.

1 hour ago, DeltaWho said:

Here is the thing. Not tooting the horn... but the LR store kinda is more advanced. From major systems like "X-Plane Identity" (Identity is more than just a proxy for the store btw), to more mundane things like... internationalisation.

 

But we know users won't take our word for it. All you have to know is... the Store is very much an active project! 

I'm sure it's an active project, and (take my word for it), I know there's more to it than setting up a squarespace site. 🤙

Just seems like a looooooong overdue project. And as a source of significant additional revenue, well...

As always, there's the crawl, walk, run methodology that suffices for most things.

9 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

I'm sure it's an active project, and (take my word for it), I know there's more to it than setting up a squarespace site. 🤙

Just seems like a looooooong overdue project. And as a source of significant additional revenue, well...

As always, there's the crawl, walk, run methodology that suffices for most things.

Well we do like money. We're not keeping the XPlane store backstage for no reason 🙂

 

Edited June 16, 2025Jun 16 by DeltaWho