28 minutes ago, brinx said:

 

Well, they are a publicly traded company, and they just cannot make up any lie that they want. What they say impact the stocks and that would result in a lawsuit.  

Do you know that the cost of making a game is astronomical these days? We are no longer in 2001. The budgets are easily in the 10 of millions or hundreds of millions. Sony's Spider-Man 2's budget is estimated at $300 million. How do you make it sustainable?  Sony's PlayStation competes with the PC, but they have begun releasing games on PC/Steam. Is it surprising if I told you they just released Spider-man 2 on steam this year? Sony also just released one of their most popular games on Xbox. This would have been unheard of several years ago. Why? The cost of making games keep rising. Hardware manufacturers sell consoles at a loss and make it up on the software sales. The developer gets 70% and the platform takes 30%. If you are a business leader and you calculated that you can substantially increase profit by going multiplatform, wouldn't you do that? An example, Microsoft brought Forza Horizon to the PS5 in April, and it was estimated that they already sold 3 million copies. $70 x 3 million = 210 million, before the 30% to the platform. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

I think Microsoft 2020 was estimated to be at least 100 million. Free streaming, free charts, massive updates I'm not surprise that they need to increase market reach to remain sustainable. It makes sense from a business perspective

And putting movie budgets into games has been a potentially fatal mistake, because previously movie profits all came from re-releases of the same movie - cinema, VHS, DVD, blue ray.

That ending with streaming has decimated the movie industry and was never really a thing for games, even less now with the likes of gamepass and psplus.

Also, the last few years has seen the whole sweet baby inc "the message" type nonsense accross the entire entertainment industry, sony suffered the worst with that, they put some $400 million into concord, it sold less copies than XPlane before it was cancelled.

You can argue all this to eternity and back, it's why i said im 50/50, what was before is now not sustainable, it remains to be seen whether

39 minutes ago, brinx said:

I'm not surprise that they need to increase market reach to remain sustainable. It makes sense from a business perspective

Actually results in a stable situation.

23 minutes ago, mSparks said:

That is not growth.

Sometimes you seem reasonable and other times ... If you don't understand the "economy of scale" and why the release of MSFS has resulted in MCDUs at $147 instead of $700, then no figures I present to you will be sufficient. You will just continue to ignore the figures.

27 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Flightsim on xbox went nowhere because flightsim on gamepad sucks for everyone.

I dont expect flightsim on gamepad on ps5 to be any different.

On a gamepad? That is the 2019 world. I wouldn't call these gamepads:

HINT: There is a switch on the back. You slide it to the XBOX position if you are using XBOX. You slide it to PC if you are using it with a PC(XPLANE, P3D or MSFS). Also works great if you add a mouse and keyboard to your setup. 😉

26 minutes ago, brinx said:

What they say impact the stocks and that would result in a lawsuit. 

HA! hahaha. Tell that to 'merican politics right now. Did I say that I think they are lying? Didn't think so. I have no doubt that some form agreement has been made. Agreements fall apart too. For all we know it was a simple hand-shaking deal. A memorandum of understanding as opposed to a hard-lined commitment for x number of production units. I'd bet 25 cents that the agreement contains zero clauses for punishment if they part ways with no hardware product to sell by the end of this investigation phase. Guess we'll know in a few years. That'll make for the biggest gap between product generation releases that they've ever had.

 

29 minutes ago, brinx said:

How do you make it sustainable?

30 minutes ago, brinx said:

I'm not surprise that they need to increase market reach to remain sustainable

Oh I totally agree. You describe it perfectly: the product is not sustainable. A desperate grasp into the PS5 market won't be enough long term either. And XP will soldier on....again.

 

1 hour ago, brinx said:

more mainstream. The consumers are benefiting with some of the lowest hardware prices

Yeah...I don't think "mainstream" means what you want to think it means. But glad that you've found hardware nirvana. I personally don't give much of a hoot for any of that stuff. It's cool and all, but I struggle to see it being as hot a commodity as you make it sound. 

1 minute ago, brinx said:

On a gamepad? That is the 2019 world. I wouldn't call these gamepads:

HINT: There is a switch on the back. You slide it to the XBOX position if you are using XBOX. You slide it to PC if you are using it with a PC(XPLANE, P3D or MSFS). Also works great if you add a mouse and keyboard to your setup. 😉

An additional $500 for a single title, that they tried with a gamepad for 15 minutes and decided they didnt like, is important because?

17 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Did I say that I think they are lying? Didn't think so.

And I didn't accuse you of that, if you noticed. So, all good.

17 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Oh I totally agree. You describe it perfectly: the product is not sustainable. A desperate grasp into the PS5 market won't be enough long term either. And XP will soldier on....again.

They'll both soldier on and the golden age of simulation shall continue. Everybody wins.

17 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Yeah...I don't think "mainstream" means what you want to think it means. But glad that you've found hardware nirvana.

Sure did. Got rid of my Saitek yoke and I found hardware Nirvana. I'm loving it. My SIMMING experience has never been more immersive with all the hardware hitting the market. My pre-order has already been submitted for the next batch. 

Edited September 28, 2025Sep 28 by brinx

30 minutes ago, brinx said:

Sometimes you seem reasonable and other times

It is hard to believe that after 5+ years people still fall into the mSparks trap 😅

5 minutes ago, Litjan said:

It is hard to believe that after 5+ years people still fall into the mSparks trap 😅

Lol. I know. I know.

44 minutes ago, brinx said:

then no figures I present to you will be sufficient. You will just continue to ignore the figures.

The fact i am not ignoring the figures is exactly why no figures you can present will be sufficient....

Half of the figures say things are going great.

The other half say its end of days for a significant portion of the entertainment industry, flight sim included, 

Then

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-53811956

Now

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c72p5epzj2no

The only way to pick one is to ignore the other. Im 50/50.

1 hour ago, brinx said:

And I didn't accuse you of that, if you noticed. So, all good.

Ah gotcha. So you introduced the word "lying" out of expression of your own uncertainty with the situation. Understandable.

1 hour ago, brinx said:

They'll both soldier on

XP yes. Your evaluation certainly sheds doubt on the other.

28 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Ah gotcha. So you introduced the word "lying" out of expression of your own uncertainty with the situation. Understandable.

"Not Lying" = "Telling the Truth", In other words, I believe what Microsoft said because saying something that is not true which could manipulate the stocks is a big NO, NO.  see U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).  A single tweet from Elon Musk about Tesla in 2018 resulted in a lawsuit from the SEC.

28 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

XP yes. Your evaluation certainly sheds doubt on the other.

I am not in favor of any SIM getting killed off or failing. I want a thriving flight simulation market for all players. Driving simulators have been mainstream for decades now so I'm glad flight simulation is finally getting some attention paid to it. The more users that fall in love with it the better.

As for MSFS, I like to get my information from the source when I can, not speculation floating around. We have the head of MSFS' saying from a single country (Japan), they have 200,000 active users. It just shows how useless those steam numbers are. We have him saying the next 3 years of development work has already been planned out and fully funded. We have him saying MSFS is highly regarded inside Microsoft, all the way up to the CEO. Now, it is expanding PS5 which will bring in more revenue. So, my evaluation is that it has been successful but expanding the market will ensure it continues to be going into the future.

On the other side we have XP which I heard had the best launch ever. I hear the XP team is growing and updates continue to roll in. So Laminar seems to be doing fine also.

Seems to me everyone is doing well. Flight simulation hobby as whole is growing and is now reaching a more mainstream audience. Everyone will soldier on as far as I can tell. Let's all just be happy.

17 minutes ago, brinx said:

I believe what Microsoft said because saying something that is not true which could manipulate the stocks is a big NO, NO

Oh they clearly are investigating options. Why you'd need to publicly declare that you believe that they're doing that, is odd. Nobody claimed that they're attempting to manipulate stock or do anything illegal. That was all you. Of course, if this is a simple stock prop-up for the time being, a couple years delay will easily make it impossible to trace back to any improper conduct.

 

21 minutes ago, brinx said:

expanding PS5 which will bring in more revenue

Exactly. Expanding to your biggest competitor is a move that does not exude confidence in what's going on in a broader sense. Especially given what other executives have said and that they're known to have shelved hardware projects as recently as a few months ago and revealed software-only partnerships with other hardware vendors. That evidence is hardly convincing.

 

 

6 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Exactly. Expanding to your biggest competitor is a move that does not exude confidence in what's going on in a broader sense.

We all know it is about increasing revenue and profits. Nothing exudes confidence more than profit. They expanded Forza Horizon 5 to their biggest competitor, Sony, in April, sold 3 million copies and this week announced Forza horizon 6 is coming is next year.

8 hours ago, brinx said:

We all know it is about increasing revenue and profits. Nothing exudes confidence more than profit. They expanded Forza Horizon 5 to their biggest competitor, Sony, in April, sold 3 million copies and this week announced Forza horizon 6 is coming is next year.

unlike xbox series S|X, playstation 5 itself has done OK

https://www.vgchartz.com/article/464074/ps5-vs-ps4-sales-comparison-january-2025/

Not broken any records, but a solid, stable showing. That is why exclusive titles like MSFS and Halo are coming to PS5

https://www.gamingbible.com/news/platform/playstation/halo-officially-returns-on-playstation-595601-20250820

But PS exclusives like Gran Turismo and Aces of Thunder are not coming to XBOX.

More on topic, this was recommended to me after I posted yesterday:

I think that says a lot to the perspective from people who are more than just "casual simmers" who only care about graphics - imho also, is where XP is growing into and otherwise has a lot to offer to people who don't feel MS has anything to offer them.

Edited September 29, 2025Sep 29 by mSparks

12 hours ago, brinx said:

We all know it is about increasing revenue and profits.

"Sometimes you seem reasonable and other times..."

If only profit was the motivation here. The move to playstation would have happened many years ago. "Desperation" is the key word now. 

This will probably ruffle some feathers, but here’s my take: The only reason Asobo is bringing MSFS to PS5 is because their bottom line isn’t being met—it’s a cash grab. And to be fair, Laminar did the same thing with X-Plane Mobile. They needed funds to get XP10 done, the mobile market was wide open, and XP Mobile ended up financing XP10.