Saw that one.

Almost a 10-minute video and you don't show or even mention a single GA aircraft. It gives the impression that GA just ain't that important. 

It's not that I'm not anti-airline; heck, I worked for them for almost 30 years. 

26 minutes ago, Les Parson said:

Almost a 10-minute video and you don't show or even mention a single GA aircraft. It gives the impression that GA just ain't that important. 

It's not that I'm not anti-airline; heck, I worked for them for almost 30 years. 

Just about every new user, with no experience jumps into a tube than complain cause they have no idea of how to fly it. Pretty much only ones interested in ga are upcoming pilots.

I agree with this guy, and the only thing where MSFS2020/2024 is ahead is some eye candy features. For how long? Time will tell.

Both are different simulators, one is geared more towards gamers and casual users, the other is for the more hardcore user who likes to tinker with everything. This has almost always been the case, and it's no different today.

However, people are free to use either sim as they please (if they can get around restrictions) and many are able to get maximum enjoyment out of either sim. I also enjoy MFS, but I don't like the gamified UI, slow startup time etc, I just hope LR don't start thinking this is a good idea and add it as well.

 

 

6 hours ago, Les Parson said:

Almost a 10-minute video and you don't show or even mention a single GA aircraft. It gives the impression that GA just ain't that important. 

It isn't to most, I find GA the most interesting part and rarely touch the larger jets. 

Exactly Tony!

I use both, and Condor3 too, and it's been, flight simulation wise, the best phase of my live.

Sometimes I play mostly MSFS, others XP12, others Condor3... it depends on what I'm up to.

Actually while I agree MSFS is more oriented for "gammers" truth is it can be as sophisticated / technical / detailed as either Xp12 or P3D... It all depends on the addons we use.

At the end of the day when I confront, for instance "feel of flight" and flight dynamics accuracy between both sims, I end up not finding a winner. Both do their stuff very acceptably provided the addons were created with care and dedication!

I am able to "fly" airbuses sometimes to an even higher level of detail than the one I presently have in Xp12 with Toliss, gliders and soaring are yet another area where I choose FS 2024, sometimes even in detriment of Condor3 because not only of the quality of the scenery but also because I really like the way they model blue and other thermal, and even ridge effects...

In terms of settings, and particularly when it comes to controller settings, I still prefer Xp12, although FS 2024 has made some good progress too in that area and nowadays I can easily configure my controllers equally well on both sims.

During the last few days I was eager to try Xp12.3, and I really like what I see, but it had been more than a month since I last had even started Xp12... Now I'm at Xp12 and FS 2024 is resting for a while, during weekend a group of RL soaring chaps may tempt me for a Condor3 task... The secret is, indeed, enjoy them all to their best !!! Simmer life has never been so good 🙂

Edited September 9, 2025Sep 9 by jcomm

21 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Both are different simulators, one is geared more towards gamers and casual users, the other is for the more hardcore user who likes to tinker with everything. This has almost always been the case, and it's no different today.

 

This and X-plane targeting more than just windows are my two top reasons Laminar have always been shielded to a large degree from what Microsoft have been doing.

What I'm seeing coming out of LR and MS now however, imho, puts MSFS at serious risk of losing a significant portion of its userbase to XP, as XP has really also started to do a very good job of catering to casual sinners, not quite there yet, but not far to go.

2 hours ago, tonywob said:

Both are different simulators, one is geared more towards gamers and casual users, the other is for the more hardcore user who likes to tinker with everything. This has almost always been the case, and it's no different today.

However, people are free to use either sim as they please (if they can get around restrictions) and many are able to get maximum enjoyment out of either sim. I also enjoy MFS, but I don't like the gamified UI, slow startup time etc, I just hope LR don't start thinking this is a good idea and add it as well.

 

 

It isn't to most, I find GA the most interesting part and rarely touch the larger jets. 

I would say MSFS is also geared towards 'hardcore' users. Why would they include the advanced default avionics if not? Agreed though that the career mode and other stuff suits 'gamers' more.

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

This and X-plane targeting more than just windows are my two top reasons Laminar have always been shielded to a large degree from what Microsoft have been doing.

What I'm seeing coming out of LR and MS now however, imho, puts MSFS at serious risk of losing a significant portion of its userbase to XP, as XP has really also started to do a very good job of catering to casual sinners, not quite there yet, but not far to go.

So basically both sims will become very similar in the end 🙂

Until MSFS has Jorg on a billboard at Dubai in an Emirates cabin crew uniform I don't see how it can possibly compete with X-Plane. 

17 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

I would say MSFS is also geared towards 'hardcore' users. Why would they include the advanced default avionics if not? Agreed though that the career mode and other stuff suits 'gamers' more.

Yes of course, but I don't think it's their main priority, likely because they need attract a larger and more diverse crowd, so it's perfectly understandable. It would be fantastic if MS provided a way to just switch all the UI bloat off and just allow us to jump straight into a flight (No music, animations, etc). 

13 minutes ago, FPVSteve said:

Until MSFS has Jorg on a billboard at Dubai in an Emirates cabin crew uniform I don't see how it can possibly compete with X-Plane. 

Nah, thats nothing.  Until we see Jorg or Seb in this position, X-Plane is untouchable.

33 minutes ago, FPVSteve said:

Until MSFS has Jorg on a billboard at Dubai in an Emirates cabin crew uniform I don't see how it can possibly compete with X-Plane. 

OMG, Emirates decay just started 🤣

1 hour ago, Rimshot said:

I would say MSFS is also geared towards 'hardcore' users. Why would they include the advanced default avionics if not? Agreed though that the career mode and other stuff suits 'gamers' more.

So basically both sims will become very similar in the end 🙂

Not really, they are very different user groups.

E.g. for most of Laminars main desktop income (the people that keep Austin in Ferraris and electric bus donations to schools) no offline use and no commercial use are absolute showstoppers.

The next group value above all else the product of that group working with Laminar, knowledge and experience you simply cannot buy. (Many P3D users who switched to xplane)

That does leave a meaningful number of "hardcore simmers" who are happy with both, but they have never historically been Laminars core market, they were mostly P3D.

What everyone else wants, and what MS have clearly always gone for is a very shallow learning curve, easy access, marketted with a massive dose of over promise and under deliver. Actually wouldn't surprise me if that is something of a company policy. But really its the shallow learning curve and easy access that sells them.

LR already jumped deep into that market with the new flight school section, in game store will/should mostly round off what's left of the rough edges.

Graphics is much harder to quantity, what I'll say about graphics is its always very high in the list of talking points, but actually pretty low in priority when it comes to people deciding which game/application to fire up (else no one would be using MSFS already /runs)

9 hours ago, tonywob said:

I just hope LR don't start thinking this is a good idea and add it as well.

Not sure what you mean by this?  My startup times in MSFS are 2 mins or less with about 20-30 sec to get into a flight … this isn’t relevant to me.  

About the only feature holding me back from using XP more frequently is the lack of Photogrammetry/streaming of world data.  Does anyone know if LR plan to implement anytime in the near future or even distant future?

Eye candy = more sales, more sales = more developers to hire = more features delivered more frequently.  Eye candy doesn’t represent “less serious”, it’s an important and critical part of simulator growth and sustainability.  

Edited September 9, 2025Sep 9 by SayAgain