I feel like this AI discussion should be moved to ANOTHER WEBSITE. 

19 hours ago, RobJC said:

I feel like this AI discussion should be moved to ANOTHER WEBSITE. 

I agree 😊

In fact, I just noticed today that this thread was still active, so long after your initial reports of your experience of your first flight with the 777F.   So I came along to see where the conversation was at, and noticed that the last few pages are this great big, off topic discussion about AI 😄

Anyway, I hope you're still enjoying the PMDG 777F !

14 minutes ago, JYW said:

I agree 😊

In fact, I just noticed today that this thread was still active, so long after your initial reports of your experience of your first flight with the 777F.   So I came along to see where the conversation was at, and noticed that the last few pages are this great big, off topic discussion about AI 😄

Anyway, I hope you're still enjoying the PMDG 777F !

I felt it would be off topic to discuss the 777F. No more flights until Wednesday. In Vancouver until then. 

Back on topic, I took the 77F for a spin into the new iniVHHH for funzies. Just a normal flight, no failures or anything to see how the plane feels. I got chase plane too, and it does help with a sense of inertia...but i think i've gotta dial in the settings a bit. Anyways, to the point...the plane is quite good...not 100%, obviously, but it's pretty good. One thing that I like to pay attention to is how it 'trims.' I put that in quotes because the 777 trimming concept is a bit different than conventional trimming. It makes sense, but at first it's a bit counterintuitive. 

Basically, when you trim, you set a speed at which the plane will equalize and maintain that speed based on thrust. There's actually a setting in the simulation tab of the CDU that says "Trim Reference Speed." I like using it because it gives me a better visualization of what speed i'm actually setting. Here's an example...let's say you're hand flying and you want to trim to maintain 250 knots. In a normal plane, you'd set the pitch, trim out the forces, and modulate the trim to keep that speed. In the 777, you'll (on the back end) trim to 250 (which is hidden from the pilot IRL) and essentially 'let go.' The plane will maintain 250 knots regardless of power setting. So if you've got full thrust, it'll do 250 kts and adjust the vertical speed to maintain that speed. If you pull the thrust out, it'll pitch down to maintain 250 kts and adjust the vertical speed to maintain 250 kts. It makes sense, just a slightly different concept since the actual stabilizer's movement is done by the plane itself, not the pilot (under normal circumstances). 

The PMDG does this fairly well, within 10 knots, but tends to lag quite a bit. Not saying it's unrealistic, just gives a slight faked sense. The 777 really is like an airbus with a yoke. 

The other thing driving the point that it's slightly 'faked' is banking. In the real plane, when banking 30 degrees or less, the plane will maintain its pitch. So if you're maintaining an altitude and you bank 30 degrees, you don't need to add back pressure to maintain altitude. That's all done for you....another reason why this is and old person's plane lol. The PMDG doesn't do this too well and you'll need to add slight back pressure. I'm using a brunner yoke, so it may be interfering with the way the plane handles in the sim...so feel free to try this stuff out and let us know if these features work normally for you. There are a few minor other things, but won't bring them up since 99% of people wouldn't notice them. Still an enjoyable plane and happy to have it in the sim. 

1 hour ago, V1ROTA7E said:

Back on topic, I took the 77F for a spin into the new iniVHHH for funzies. Just a normal flight, no failures or anything to see how the plane feels. I got chase plane too, and it does help with a sense of inertia...but i think i've gotta dial in the settings a bit. Anyways, to the point...the plane is quite good...not 100%, obviously, but it's pretty good. One thing that I like to pay attention to is how it 'trims.' I put that in quotes because the 777 trimming concept is a bit different than conventional trimming. It makes sense, but at first it's a bit counterintuitive. 

Basically, when you trim, you set a speed at which the plane will equalize and maintain that speed based on thrust. There's actually a setting in the simulation tab of the CDU that says "Trim Reference Speed." I like using it because it gives me a better visualization of what speed i'm actually setting. Here's an example...let's say you're hand flying and you want to trim to maintain 250 knots. In a normal plane, you'd set the pitch, trim out the forces, and modulate the trim to keep that speed. In the 777, you'll (on the back end) trim to 250 (which is hidden from the pilot IRL) and essentially 'let go.' The plane will maintain 250 knots regardless of power setting. So if you've got full thrust, it'll do 250 kts and adjust the vertical speed to maintain that speed. If you pull the thrust out, it'll pitch down to maintain 250 kts and adjust the vertical speed to maintain 250 kts. It makes sense, just a slightly different concept since the actual stabilizer's movement is done by the plane itself, not the pilot (under normal circumstances). 

The PMDG does this fairly well, within 10 knots, but tends to lag quite a bit. Not saying it's unrealistic, just gives a slight faked sense. The 777 really is like an airbus with a yoke. 

The other thing driving the point that it's slightly 'faked' is banking. In the real plane, when banking 30 degrees or less, the plane will maintain its pitch. So if you're maintaining an altitude and you bank 30 degrees, you don't need to add back pressure to maintain altitude. That's all done for you....another reason why this is and old person's plane lol. The PMDG doesn't do this too well and you'll need to add slight back pressure. I'm using a brunner yoke, so it may be interfering with the way the plane handles in the sim...so feel free to try this stuff out and let us know if these features work normally for you. There are a few minor other things, but won't bring them up since 99% of people wouldn't notice them. Still an enjoyable plane and happy to have it in the sim. 

Great information.  Thanks for the input and detail 👍

For the record, I just made one of my best landings in the PMDG 777F. I have had a tendency to land a bit heavy in the MSFS version of this aircraft, but this one was a much more controlled landing. Not a greaser, but a nice firm landing that just felt and sounded right. The only downside was that I had forgotten to activate the autobrake (manual braking with the trigger button on my CH Flightstick Pro joystick is an "on/off" affair that is best avoided whenever possible), so the rollout was longer than anticipated. Fortunately, I was landing on runway 10L at EIDW Dublin, so I had plenty of concrete real estate at my disposal