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FS 11 - New Rendering Engine?

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Guest fsxmissionguy

Donald,I really can't see how anything in this thread would cause a "sinking feeling." There's nothing in this thread but the wild guesses of a bunch of people.The only real fact here is the existence of ESP ... which, as has been pointed out, is FSX packaged differently so some people marketing it to the government can do some things with it that the consumer license really didn't anticipate. Some smart person at Microsoft realized there was money in this, so they repackaged the game in such a way that the government could buy it without the press going ape that they were spending tax dollars on a "game." And also to get people "right with the license" so-to-speak.Pretty smart.The bigger issue is the reorg (my view.)If you look at how ACES "appears" to be being reorganized, then one might imagine that the Flight Simulator group will become a customer of ESP (the Core Group). The Core Group would be responsible for building "The World." The Flight Simulator group would then be responsible for building an airplane/airport simulation within that world. (And presumeably, the "Trains Group" would be responsible for building a train simulation inside that world, and so on ... and so on.)You could then buy whichever pieces you need or want. In the end, they will have built Second Life, but at "Google Earth" resolution. ;) Thankfully, we'll still be able to fly in it.As a customer, the Flight Simulator group would be able to make demands of the Core Group, one presumes. "Give me real world physics, please" would be my first demand of the Core Group, so that I could fly under the bridges in their world without running into invisible walls. (Extrapolate this request to understand what it really represents.)One presumes that the Flight Simulator group would be responsible for all the flight-specific physics, and the Trains group would be responsible for all the train physics (if there are any beyond simple Newtonics ... hey, I just made up a word!).And the Military/Industrial Group could be responsible for building their simulations separate from the consumer division. If you manage people, and you manage them in Seattle ... that's probably an important consideration in how you organize your company.Sounds simple enough. Lots of companies are organized this way. But I have to remind you, this is just one idiots wild guess. I have zero inside knowledge, and I don't think anyone else in this thread does either.If there is anything to fear, it seems to me, it would be the Core Group telling the Flight Simulator group "no, you can't have real world physics because we're too busy making cloud shadows or wisps of grass or 3D leaves." Or something like that. How would the FS group respond? Would/could they stop being a customer?To address your concern, however, under this scenario of organization, the airplane designers could care less what the mesh is of The World and can design airplanes independent of everything else that happens in The World.So, I think your concern is probably not yet warranted, even by and among the community of guessers.

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Hey Kevin,That's a fairly close description of the new studio layout, except that Core is a group of its own, and ESP is just another customer of Core (like Flight and Trains), so Core has to balance requests from all 3 consumers of their output. Luckily we aren't trying to ship all 3 products at the same time, Trains and ESP V2 will be out sometime next year, Flight and ESP V3 will be out at some point beyond that - so basically we'll ship a new version of ESP that is roughly equiv with the latest released entertainment title.And if anyone is going to be in/near Anaheim, CA July 18-20, the Trains team will be doing the first public showing of TS2 at the National Train Show (http://www.tsinsider.com/en-US/team/Pages/MeetusattheNationalTrainShow!.aspx), so you can see what's been updated in the engine so far there :->And if you happen to live near Redmond, WA, and have played any of the Train Sim products available, the Trains team is looking for some folks to do usability playtesting (http://www.tsinsider.com/en-US/team/Pages/TrainSimulatorFansWanted.aspx)

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You are correct, but you have to remember that it is a platform. Microsoft has created a virtual world platform to expand upon and develop multiple types of simulations on both for professional and causal uses.To expand the platform and enhance it will be much easier and more cost effective than having to re-write an entire new game engine each time.I think we will see some incredible stuff with FS11. Remember FSX was developed before DX10 and Vista were even really ready for production.Windows 7 promises new touch technology so instead of using a mouse you can touch your instruments in the cockpit.I am rather looking forward to FS11...and TS2As a matter of fact I wouldn't wonder that by FS12 and TS3 that they come together as a package you can subscribe to. Both using the same platform.


Reed Stough
Managing Partner
REX SIMULATIONS 

website:  www.rexsimulations.com
supportwww.rexaxis.com

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Guest Nick_N

TimThank you for this information... its great to have you guys around to clarify for us when questions like this come up.

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>That's a fairly close description of the new studio layout,>except that Core is a group of its own, and ESP is just>another customer of Core (like Flight and Trains), so Core has>to balance requests from all 3 consumers of their output.Thanks, Tim. That really was the major point of my initial post and reference links.Since ESP is "just another customer of Core," it is my honest expectation that the "requests" from ESP's commercial/gov't customers will drive development by the Core Team to even higher levels than otherwise might occur... ;)


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556


     Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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>I have read this thread with a sinking feeling. The last>rumor I heard was that aircraft built to SP2 specs would be>compatible with VNext. According to this thread this will most>likely not be the case. Oh well, if we are starting from>scratch I just hope the engine improvements are worth it.Donald, I honestly don't see any reason at all for any anxiety. It may prove necessary to process existing FSX SP2/DX10 compliant content through some conversion utility, but if so I expect that to be relatively painless.Keep in mind that ACES has a lot invested in their own, in-house modeling too! ;)


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556


     Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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It is also important to point out that each team is not limited to only their specific area in terms of features. For example, the Train Sim team is doing the majority of the work on an editor, which will also be included in ESP. Generally, items that are common to many products are done by the Core team, but if the team is already fully scheduled the product teams are able to commit their own resources to the feature if they feel it is important enough to their product.__________________Steve HeijsterGraphics ProgrammerMicrosoft Game Studios

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After reading this thread, especially the two posts from inside the studio so to speak, I am very encouraged and excited like Bill to see what FS11 brings us. I too think FS11 will be a watershed release for the FS franchise.


Eric 

 

 

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Guest Adrian Wainer

Excuse me for being sceptical but were we not promised all sorts of great things in respect of FSX?Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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Guest Adrian Wainer

Great things like how air traffic control is dealt with in FSX?And I would be interested to know what is the difference in terms of quality of graphics betweeb DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 in FSX?Best and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

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One of the main problems with FSX is that it was released during a software/hardware change over so to speak. Vista for XP coupled with scores of problems with Vista with being a resource hog number 1 (imo), DX10 for DX9, chips with just HT, now 2 and 4 cores, one GPU to multiple GPU's, etc... FSX was just bad timing.Now what I hope is MS's Vista replacement, coded now as Windows 7, will not be a repeat of XP to Vista with a FS version coming out in between.


Eric 

 

 

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Guest Adrian Wainer

With the greatest respect this is not a court room and your are not a lawyer dealing with a hostile witness in a criminal libel trial, I did not use the word promised in the sense that I would have been seeking to imply, suggest or state that Microsoft entered in to a verbal or written contractural arangement with prospective purchasers of FSX, I used the word promised to reflect the anticipation of what was reasonably expected from the new version of the Microsoft product Flightsimulator by its many loyal enthusiasts. As to your remark "Opinion cannot be proven so it is OK to have one of your own": to state the obvious is to run the risk of appearing deliberately sarcastic and demeaning of another individual and might I further respectfully remind you that that it was the likes of people that flew B-17s and Liberators over Germany in World War 2 and Skyraiders over Vietnam and who crewed merchant shipping in an Atlantic infested with ###### U-boats that have given people the liberty to hold differing opinion and not the act of writeing as a techie in a flightsim internet forum. As for Direcx 10, I am still waiting for evidence that Directx 10 graphics are in any way significantly better than Directx 9 graphics. As for the ATC, I am aware that there have been some changes in ATC for FSX and I was aware of that before you chose to raise that point with me and no the FSX ATC is not to my likeing and nor would I believe it to be to the likeing of many of the people who take a serious interest in the sim.Yours EtcAdrian Wainer

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