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New Airbus Cockpit Shot

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GentsInteresting posts regarding new Bus from Feelthere/Wilco--have flown it for 3 days now--most of the "write-ups" in other posts are correctable if you study the operating handbook. Clearly some bugs but for a new release in arguably one of the most complex systems out there, not bad at all.I've only flown it in FS9 and in 2D cockpit mode (see pic). What I can say thus far (with over 2000hrs real world fast jet experience).- Superb parametric/flight modeling- Detailed systems interface via Flight Management and Guidance Computer (FMGC)--think of it as an FMS on steroids- Steerable pushback utilizing PPU- Selectable configuration modes (beginner, intermediate, expert)- Good sound (can select panel volume separately)- Good night lighting (flood)--thumbwheel on mouse can turn brightness up or down on MFDs- Passenger wingviews are included- Integrated TCAS--touchpad transponder--very nice- Superb external details/paintjob- Selectable ECAM views- Realistic strut compression and "feeling" of touchdown- Superb auto brake- SIDS/STARS are selectable along with correct transitions (AIRAC is 610--Feelthere has not updated AIRAC)- Easy to store routes once you've manually enteredWhat I'm still trying to figure out/what I haven't tried:- The multitude of FMGC entries/parameters/and phases- System descents- Holding procedures- Go Around procedures- Importing FSplans/FSBuild data What I think I don't like but am still working:- Insufficient drag with speedbrakes extended- Near constant throttle management in autothrust in descent/low speed regime--easier to hand massage throttle in this regime- Haven't figured out interim level offs when TOGA or FLX thrust is applied in a climb--aircraft wants to climb through interim level offs when in high thrust situations but with the altitude selected on the MCP- Localizer intercepts within 30 degrees are not very accurate--overshoots everytime--I find the jet wants to chase the localizer (with LOC selected)- Aircraft will not intercept glideslope if above glideslope when APPR mode is selected--critical to be at or slightly below glideslope intercept altitude in order to have GS captured (attached picture shows ILS approach with LOC/APPR/autothrust modes selected--the approach was spot on to include an autoflare to landing)--although the jet initially overshot the Localizer and overcompensated about 15nm out- I've had a couple airspeed tape rollbacks and simultaneous thrust increase which usually means pitot/static icing--though I had pitot heat selected--hmmmmmMany of these may be related to overall inexperience in the platform--and as I said, I will continue to work/practice.Overall--not as "crisp" in the approach regime as a PMDG system--but a very good add-on in my view.RakeBusILS.jpg

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Excellent post/report. My understanding of not intercepting when above the glideslope is that it's a FS limitation. I see it in all my addons.Have no idea how that corresponds to the real world.Jim Harnes

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I doubt that it is a limitation, and even if it is, good devlopers find ways to get around these limitations. Seems from the post that the bad is right now outweighing the good. There is just not enough attention to the small (and even many large) details.

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There is indeed a limitation in FS related to positioning yourself ABOVE the GS and has been well documented since FS9 release if not before...do a search and I'm sure you'll find it:-)

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I doubt that it is a limitation, and even if it is, good devlopers find ways to get around these limitations.The aircraft and it's instrumentation do not intercept the glide slope in Flight Simulator.There is no glide slope or localizer or VOR or NDB signal in FS. There are no stray electrons floating around in the airspace in FS, unlike the real world.At a very basic level, Flight Simulator calculates where your aircraft is located and what, if any, Navaids should be in range and how they should display in the cockpit. It is well tested and documented that if FS2004 calculates your aircraft is above the glide slope a relatively small amount, the autopilot APPR mode will NOT intercept.Yes, developers could get around it. All they have to do is replace the entire FS flight, navigation and aircraft position engines / dll's, modules, etc.This same calculated effect of radio waves is why NDB and VOR's are usable when their signals pass through mountains. Why GPS system are reliable in FS in locations where they can only pick up one or two satellite signals - and are totally unreliable in the real world.

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NPFS is realistic enough that we often forget that things like Navaids don't really exist but are only have their performance replicated by programming rules, which hope to average out and emulate real world physics.The programmers are very good, but it's a very big world.

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Hi Rake,good post there. I cant say that my experience with this bird has been as positive or as optimistic as your analysis though, but we all have our own opinions after all.A rather comprehensive list of current bugs/issues has been posted over at the feelthere off topic forum by marios, it can be found at the following link: http://www.iemit.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6920. I dont think that many of these can be correctable by simply studying the operating handbook, but perhaps you can offer some suggestions to the contrary?Many of these I have discovered after a similar period of ownership, just about 2 days now, some of them are related to systems that I probably wouldn't encounter on a trip from point a to point b so they haven't cropped up for me yet. However it is perfectly clear that the FeelThere bus needs an awful lot of work to be a nice FS simulation of the systems and characteristics of the Airbus. Note that I dont say 'perfect' simulation, just 'nice'. I dont expect Level D multi-million dollar quality in a $50 add-on, so don't flame me for that!I still believe that FeelThere will come good with this effort, it just will need a certain amount of time and patience on our part as purchasers. As many others have said, it is not the first release to be issued with bugs etc. It is simply that some of the bugs are so obvious that it beggars belief that they were missed/overlooked during beta testing. Anyway, thats my two cents Alex

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I am reluctant to dive in on this, or any threads, about the Airbus, but I can assure everyone that FS requires you to be below or at the same level as the Glide Slope vector in order to capture. You might be lucky occasionally if you are 100 feet or so above, but it's best to be slightly below.Over and out.Rob Young

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Right Rob, the fact is that many simmers fail to make the distinction between a sim limitation and a product bug. Everyone is better off if they understand the differences and it saves devlopers from suffering the "XYZ Product has a failure to capture glideslope bug" when in fact the issue is pilot error:-)

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This is why I usually hand fly my ILS approaches, or if a GPS,VOR or even NDB approach is also available in lieu of an ILS, I will use it for heading guidance to the runway and control the descent manually. Simply tune in the ILS frequency on NAV 1 and chooose the other approach on your Garmin. This allows you to intercept above the glideslope and still fly the approach and you can also fly a lesser than 30* localizer intercept. In real life simulator training we rarely fly approaches with full auto pilot engaged. That's too easy. I know most simmers want to fly the aircraft just like the "big boys" do, but believe me, most "real" pilots would rather hand fly an approach when given the chance. That's why we went through all that training. Or was it so we could wear cool sunglasses, I forgotJohn M:-cool

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>This is why I usually hand fly my ILS approaches, or if a>GPS,VOR or even NDB approach is also available in lieu of an>ILS, I will use it for heading guidance to the runway and>control the descent manually. Simply tune in the ILS frequency>on NAV 1 and chooose the other approach on your Garmin. This>allows you to intercept above the glideslope and still fly the>approach and you can also fly a lesser than 30* localizer>intercept. In real life simulator training we rarely fly>approaches with full auto pilot engaged. That's too easy. I>know most simmers want to fly the aircraft just like the "big>boys" do, but believe me, most "real" pilots would rather hand>fly an approach when given the chance. That's why we went>through all that training. Or was it so we could wear cool>sunglasses, I forgot>>John M:-cool Ah, another one who likes to hand fly the approach:-) My charter pilot buddy hates to wait on the AP to capture unless it's real hard IMC and he hand flys the approach nearly as well as any AP:-)

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Very informative VC shot. Thanks.Anyone besides me notice that it puts the nail in the coffin regarding the so-called "copywrite issue" of the center panel's graphics?Obviously, my "WIP theory" about the website's preview screenshots has been validated... ;)

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Bill,Nice to see a post with some sense posted on that issue. Myself.. I am tired of all the little legal eagles running around here playing copyright cop. How many have taken let alone passed any BAR exam. I am glad you posted that.Thanks,Scott

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In truth, the autopilot in the Richard Probst 737/727 panels will also intercept from above in the MAN GS mode.DJ

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Good commentsAfter a couple more days of flying--I'm really enjoying the platform--I was able to isolate the tape rollback and thrust increase to Active Sky V 6.5 in the options section--it will either allow or not allow icing--I deselected that option and have had no rollback--like the GS intercept from above issue--an artificiality of FS--though most aircraft will not allow GS intercept in APPR mode from above (a dot above sticks in my mind)when it requires greater than 3.5 degrees or 800fpm plus to re-intercept--that may vary by aircraft--there's something in FAR Part 121 I believe on that subject.On the power/autopilot issue, the handbook recommends "speed dialing" this to a button on the joystick or throttle quadrant--the registered version of FSUIPC allows assigning both TOGA and autopilot to respective buttons on the throttle/joystick (FS can do this as well--but FSUIPC gives you many more options)--I highly recommend doing this--I've been dialing in intermediate level offs and use a combination TOGA deselection and power management from MCT to CL mode (you can hear the throttle detent activating--and get an ECAM message)--simply bug the altitude--autothrust (throttle detent back into CL). I find you still have to "hand massage" an early level off right after takeoff--but this is not atypical from real-world flying. In the descent, the way in which the system manages power almost seems counterintuitive--from my experience in fighters, if you wanted to lose altitude and speed, you pulled throttles to idle and extended the speed brakes--in the Airbus (at least in this model), you need to leave your throttles parked at a detent and then pop the speedbrakes if you're in a managed descent. I haven't figured out a system (VNAV)descent--I simply dial down the alt bug on the MCP and set a corresponding descent rate (I do miss the computed level off green arcfrom the NG73s)--got to do the math.On the Localizer front--system still lags the intercept turn a bit--though on speed (@180kts) and within 30 degrees--the overshoot is not too bad--many pilots like to lead turn the localizer a tad anyway with the heading bug/or hand fly to localizer intercept then select APPR mode for GS capture. If ATC is giving you a greater than 30 degree intercept, you'll need to use a lead radial intercept.Still haven't cracked the code on FSplan import--if someone out there has, please share. I don't mind hand jamming it in--I just jot down the FSbuild routing and plug it into the FMGC--then I save the route in the stored route section for future use. Once the route is stored, you can recall it like the PMDG in the CO RTE line. I really like the depature/arrival selection--easy access to lots of data (based on AIRAC--in this case still 610).Here's a shot of the United A319 livery climbing out from KORD. My opinion only, but this jet is a KEEPER. Cheers--RakeUALbus.jpg

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Sorry Paul, didn't mean to overlook your and others excellent AP work, just pointing out the sim limitation absent your work:-)

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Thanks for your post Rake,a few things I've noticed, wanted to see if you've come across them with your tests.- FPS: for me is very good, locked at 25 with all sliders maxed (which is my normal results with LDS, PMDG etc) - I have a marked frame rate drop (to the tune of 6-10fps) when using Arc mode on the Nav display only (no drop in any other display mode), do you have any frame rate jumps/stutters that you've experienced?- Managed Descents - I noted that you mentioned VNAV (airbus-speak 'managed') issues. I have yet to fly a successful approach with full managed descent, i.e. speed/altitude constraints that the a/p adheres to. I think this feature is a bit hosed at the moment and needs attention.- I agree with your analysis on LOC intercept, it isnt great but it still is functional. As you say if you lead into the turn when the Loc becomes active there doesnt seem to be any trouble on the intercept. A straight intercept from 30 degrees is a bit fudgy at the moment, but is not a killer for me (especially as I normally hand-dial loc intercepts anyway then fly manually from G/S active as long as vis permits)- speed control seems to be a bit of a 'bug' at the moment, with the spoilers being fairly ineffectual. I have read that in particular the 319 has a bit of trouble losing speed and alt at the same time (a la the 737 funnily enough) but not sure if that is what FT are deliberately trying to model?Anyway, good to hear your points, take careAlex

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Hi Tord,thanks for your input. I've been using the FS9 Deluxe version of the bird as I havent yet stepped up to FSX.Im well aware of the airbus logic and can assure you I'm not treating my new acquisition like a Boeing :). My experience with managed descents has been exactly as illustrated by this poster at the FT forum: http://www.iemit.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6900I.e alt constraints entered via the FMGC, T/D is inaccurately calculated, waypoints between alt constraints inaccurately list fp cruise alt (may be confusing the way Im describing this, but...) consider the LAM3A arrival into Heathrow, the alt constraints as entered in the FMGC are FL 250 at Logan, FL150 at Saber, and I also enter FL80 for the final fix at LAM for the hold. If left alone, everytime I have flown this arrival the FMGC will display a crossing alt for point Tripo (in between Logan and Saber on the arrival) at the initial cruise altitude for the trip. Like I said, a bit of a convoluted explanation but happens without fail on each trip I have done. Perhaps this is an issue that only affects the FS9 version of this a/c.anyway, thanks again for your comments, very nice to hear other users experiencestake careAlex

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Ah, I see. I thought you had problems with the managed modes. Well, let

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Thanks Tord/AlexI'm only using it in FS9 and 2D mode--can't comment on FSX or VC versions. As for an FPS drop, there is a slight hit with ARC selected--though not significant in my view.I haven't attempted an APPROACH PHASE yet but will follow your comments Tord.Would like to hear from any real world airbus drivers on any techniques and procedures.Waiting for more liveries and FT AIRAC update.Happy Flying!CheersRake

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From the posts above--this might help the decel issue:Thanks to Dutch64:"Agree, fde is pretty nice, Like I've written in another post, edit in the air file the cd_ds value to 0.13 and the speed brakes have a better effect. I also adjusted the parasite drag to 1.12 to make the plane slightly less slippery together with a thrust_scalar of 0.96 to make it less overpowered.Just a do-it-yourself patch till the first sp comes out (This is for the 320, didn't experiment with others yet)"CheersMartinPlease add more hints/techniques as you discover them--Rake

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Hey Rake,check out the following website: http://www.airbusdriver.net/Is written by a US airways training captain and has some really interesting articles on bus procedures/features, is very useful In particular, take a look at Eric Parks Airbus notes in the 'Online' tab (here's a direct link: http://www.airbusdriver.net/AirbusNotes.doc). It is a great 120-page manual/guide to the Bus systems/features. It is fairly weighty :) but has assisted me a lot with understanding the features simulated in the old PSS bus and the new FT offering.take careAlex

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