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The Airbus I Am Waiting For...

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Just an observation here but, having watched a recent episode of "My Name is Earl", has anyone considered the "karma effect" in all of this?:-):-) If I remember the "sixties" correctly, "karma" was about "what goes around, comes around":-)If the "karma" theory holds true then when Developer A steals Developer B's thunder then Developer C, Developer D, or even Developer XYZ, get's to steal Developer A's thunder:-) :-)I know it's dumb just like the "Earl Show" but couldn't resist...:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Similarly, and again, it is the AXP conglomerate, and by extension it's component entities Dreamfleet, RXP and Flight Scenery that have the most to lose by a very late, unsubstantiated featurelist of a release. The high end core is harsh, and very unforgiving.I'm giving them all the benefit of the doubt - I truly cannot believe they are all nuts.regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigy


Regards,

Mark

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>#1 rule in software development: It is done when it's done.>Hmmm, not under my roof my friend. Actual #1 rule in Commercial software development: It's done when the plan says it'll be done. (Assuming there's a half-decent Project Manager involved to bang heads, sort priorities and generally get up everyones backs).

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L. Adamson wrote:>You used the term "really unprofessional"No, I didn't. Get your eyes checked.Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile


Bob Scott | AVSIM Forums Administrator | AVSIM Board of Directors

ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

System: i9-10900K @ 5.2GHz on custom water loop, ASUS Maximus XII Hero, 32GB GSkill 3600MHz CAS15, eVGA 2080Ti XC Ultra, Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@30Hz, 5xSamsung SSD, eVGA 1KW PSU, 1Gbps internet

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Guest CWR Weather Radar

>Hmmm, not under my roof my friend.>>Actual #1 rule in Commercial software development: It's done when the >plan says it'll be done.>>(Assuming there's a half-decent Project Manager involved to bang heads, >sort priorities and generally get up everyones backs).Hi!I think you have to differ between hobby/spare time and full daytime programming.In spare time projects, even if for money, let programmers have floating release dates.Flo

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>"Actual #1 rule in Commercial software development: It's done when the plan says it'll be done. Assuming there's a half-decent Project Manager involved to bang heads, sort priorities and generally get up everyones backs."Interesting that many "head banging project leads" do achieve the "time frame goals" and then have to come back to address issues with a series of service releases.:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Guest SilverCircle

>>#1 rule in software development: It is done when it's done.>Hmmm, not under my roof my friend. >Actual #1 rule in Commercial software development: It's done>when the plan says it'll be done.It's the #1 mistake, my friend and the reason why we nowadays have so many bug-infested crapware.The best project manager can do nothing when the developers encounter unforeseen implementation difficulties, get screwed by some 3rd party stuff they have no influence on (drivers, sdks, development tools etc.), or discover design failures (which were not apparent during the design phase and must be changed later then). These things happen for almost any complex piece of software. Whether or not you can compensate the loss of time caused by these unpredictable things depends on quite a few things. If you have the resources (mainly manpower) available, you may be able to do so. Otherwise, you'll loose track with the plan.You can then:a) ignore it, keep up with the plan and release it in a worse state than it actually could be. Make the customer aware that problems will be solved with later updates.:( trash the plan and release a good quality piece of software with a delay.Unfortunately, in our present days, a) is probably the much preferred solution and is often chosen even when :( would be a valid option.:( is not always possible, of course. I've seen many projects where the deadline for release was set in stone and delaying it was simply impossible w/o causing major problems for both sides of the contract. But for a flight sim add-ons, just look at the 2 scenarios:1. Release it unfinished, lots of bugs, missing features etc.Pros:* you get your money earlier.* you may be able to "beat" a competitive product by releasing earlier.Cons:* unsatisfied and disappointed customers (with all the evil side effects)* much more time (and thus money) consuming support issues* Need to continue to work heavily on it after release to fix the problems, *while* having to support the buggy product.* your reputation as a developer/publisher may take damage.2. Release it when it is basically finished with good level of QAPros:* happy customers who will welcome your next product, write good reviews, spread the word etc.* fewer demand from support issues, thus more time to concentrate on the development* You can start your next product sooner, because the released one will only require little work to fix the few remaining issues.Cons:* you get your money later.* The possibility of being overtaken by a competitive product which releases earlier.After all, the required development time to *really* finish the product doesn't differ between 1) and 2). Writing code takes time and whether you write it before or after the release doesn't make any difference. I would even say that 2) works out better, because working on an unreleased product with just a few QA people is more relaxed and much more productive than working hard to fix the countless bugs reported by users, who often do not care to submit a really helpful bug report, *after* the release.

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>Nice try, Graeme Butler, but no cigar for you. ;)>>First of all the Q1 statement was an error, and even I gasped>when I read it. It has since been corrected.>>As to Q2, never forget "2nd quarter" does not mean the first>day of it, just during it. Last time I checked, Q2 ends on>June 30.>>Actually, I have never believed in announcing release time>frames. However, this was not my call to make.>>Why?>>Because if you say "Spring of 2005", some folks think that>means the first day of Spring which, of course is not correct.>It means any time during that season.>>After a while it is almost funny. Someone says that the>product will be out in the Winter of 2004, and on Decemeber 21>you'll have folks posting: "Well, it is Winter, where is the>product". >>I guess we really need to say: "Sometime DURING....">>I never realized that a quarter or a season occurs on just one>day of the year.;)>>After almost 10 years in this business I am so used used to>these types of threads that I do not even know why I bother>resonding to the snide remarks such as:>>"The Airbus you will be waiting for...">>I dare say that we will have it out before the end of Q2, and>if we miss it, it will not be by much time.>>Ya' really gotta remember that we read this stuff. :-lol>>Regards, Lou Betti>http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/AXP/AXPforumbanner.jpgSuch remarks often arise due to comments like yoursQ2 is long gone now, and you had to "officially" push the release to *whenever*Most developers come out really strong, then they bog down in actual work and release dates go out the window. We have been at this for 10 years too you know, waiting, knowing it, expecting. Few months after you posted this, i am sure you realize the irony!

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Sorry for dredging up the past, but is this A320 still in development? I thought I read in another post that it was on the way to being cancelled.Although I had a good chuckle at Bob Scott's comment from March last year : 'It'll give us something to look forward to in 2008.'Cheers, SLuggy


I do not have a signature. Why are you reading this?

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What can I say? Looks like 2009 is the new 2008...I caught a lot of grief in some financial discussion groups about my prediction of a major drop in US house prices in 2007 too. You don't even want to hear what I think might happen in 2008.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile


Bob Scott | AVSIM Forums Administrator | AVSIM Board of Directors

ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

System: i9-10900K @ 5.2GHz on custom water loop, ASUS Maximus XII Hero, 32GB GSkill 3600MHz CAS15, eVGA 2080Ti XC Ultra, Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@30Hz, 5xSamsung SSD, eVGA 1KW PSU, 1Gbps internet

SB XFi Titanium, optical link to Yamaha RX-V467, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf spkrs, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro, PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensors, Coolermaster HAF932 case, Stream Deck XL button box

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Humor us Bob,I for one would like to know a bit about 2008!Regards,Gerhard


Regards,

Gerhard

 

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things" (Antoine de Saint-Exupery)

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I don't know, but I'm getting awful tired of the business decisions these developers are making nowadays. A lot of time has passed and we aren't seeing anything. Now we hear that the AXP model, which I was lead to believe would run in either FSX and FS9 with a few tweaks, is now being developed for FSX, and no firm statement of the FS9 version is being made. So which is it? Have they been making the FS9 version for 4 years now, or is the FS9 version not nearly where we were led to believe it was, only to be shelved in favor of an FSX version? We were given every indication the FS9 version was coming, but as usual the "market" has dictated they go back on their word to release an FS9 version, then make the FSX version.So is AXP pulling a PMDG? Is the money and so-called market making the business decisions for these companies, thereby negating their promises to deliver a product? If you tell the community you're developing a product for release to a certain group of users, then why is it okay to **** on them in favor of the so-called larger group?I'm getting REAL tired of the actions by the payware companies lately, so much so, I'm seriously considering making FS9 my last version of FS. I just don't think the BS of tweaking MSFS 'til you're blus in the face and the poor practices by developers is worth all the aggravation anymore.


- Chris Jefferies

 

Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU

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Amen to that. Great post.I feel exactly the same way. It's time that developers stop leaking premature information about products that haven't even entered alpha stage yet. I am not totally blaming the FS add-on developers, because they're just following a very annoying trend of the game developers in releasing and pre-hyping their products years ahead. Duke Nukem was probably the first title that introduced this pre-annoucement syndrome, but there are many recent titles, including Spore. Or Crysis. Gee, I was hearing about Crysis two years before it was released. Boring. To me it generates more of an adverse effect, because after staring at sheetshots and almost being intimately aware or every aspect of the development cycle, I don't feel the need anymore to actually buy it, because the novelty is already somewhat gone.FS developers need to keep in mind that FS version usually have a shelf-life of about 2-3 years until the next version hits (the average life cycle of an FS release is 2.4 years to be exact). I am not saying that FS11 is around the door, but we're already well 14 months into the FSX life cycle and at some point, speaking of me, an add-on that I can use only for a few months doesn't make a whole lot of sense anymore.I very much appreciate developers, like HifiSim and the developers of GEX (in fact all Flight1 products) who "just comes out with a product when its done".Noone wants to read or even hear in every other forum post "Is it done yet? What about now?... Now?" and canned messages of slightly annoyed developers or community managers with messages of "When it is done, it's done!". No kidding, reeeallly?In the case of AXP, I stopped counting how many times the project has been pushed back, but I guess reading this thread explains it all. I am all for a careful, diligent and professional development cycle, but this pre-pre-pre-annoucing has to stop.Pat

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