Feelthere have taken our money and vanished into the night, like all thieves do.The support for the 737pic, the airbus series and other products are to be handed over to that user friendly and forthcoming group called WILCO!!!!!!!However it is not all bad they are keeping the following forums open."Danny,The following products are feelthere products:-ERJ v.1 (PIC ERJ)-Caravan (both Deluxe and standard)-Florida scenery-(tba this summer)-(tba this summer)We will maintain an open forum for these projects (and will open to the 2 new products) and we have no plan to close them. We will also leave the non technical piloting forum open to discuss piloting issues for feelThere and Wilco products.Thank youVic"Wow really useful Vic......Here is the thread for those interested.http://www.iemit.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9042Feelthere have had the last penny from me......Over to you Scoob........Garry

It's clear now that with a "private" support anyone can't know the real problems of a product.I really hope that simmers community will become to be more and more inflexible against certain behaviours.I hope that people with certain behaviors will be kicked off from the simmers community.And I hope that these events become an alarm ring for every software house operating in flight simulationFabrizio

It's frustrating to see FeelThere do so much of the hard part and get probably 80% of the way there with their Airbus...and then to watch them fall off the track in such a big way. Oh well, looks like Ariane and CaptainSim may have some new company coming to the FS Losers Hall of Fame.For at least some of us, customer service still matters.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Well Garry, the writing has been on the wall so to speak, for some time now; since long before the Airbus was released, at any rate.Not necessarily directed at anyone in this thread, but, there is certainly allot of whining and moaning over issues such as this, but many, if not most, will fall in line on release day, credit card in hand.I know for certain that you, Garry, have been around long enough to know their M.O., so it's a bit difficult to have any sympathy. I don't mean that to come across poorly on you, but, as long as people support this sort of thing with their wallets, what incentive do they really have to do things differently ? My unsolicited 2 cents.

>Well Garry, the writing has been on the wall so to speak, for>some time now; since long before the Airbus was released, at>any rate.>>Not necessarily directed at anyone in this thread, but, there>is certainly allot of whining and moaning over issues such as>this, but many, if not most, will fall in line on release day,>credit card in hand.>>I know for certain that you, Garry, have been around long>enough to know their M.O., so it's a bit difficult to have any>sympathy. I don't mean that to come across poorly on you, but,>as long as people support this sort of thing with their>wallets, what incentive do they really have to do things>differently ? >>My unsolicited 2 cents.Regarding me, you are right, I was really stupid, I'm not a newbie, and I usually check very well before purchase a product, but I purchased Willco 737, not early, after 2 SP if I remember well and I was satisfy about it. This is the reason why I've purchased Airbus so early and without check.But this is not a good reason to publish product so bugged and rough (my opinion)as Wilco Airbus.But any company can be wrong something, the problem is the way in wich you go (or don't go) to resolve them.Bob is right reguarding CptSim (I've never bought nothing from Ariane), I remember the same experience: I've bought CptSim 727 (....), and I stop to talk more about that product (everyone know); same situation: user deeply discontent expecially after 707 release and they suspended public support.Exactly same situation.In that period i decided to never buy someting again from CptSim.The reliability of a company is determined by the reliability of the owners of that company, infact the FMS of CptSim 757 (...) is the natural consequence of certain mentality (my opinion) :D :DBye Bye Wilco/Feelthere :-)ReguardsFabrizio

Fabrizio,I certainly understand, and in no way am I attempting to place the blame on you guys for FeelThere/Wilco's poor business choices, nor am I attempting to defend those choices.Maintaining an objective position, it just isn't really all that surprising. After all, what can you really do about it ? Nothing is what, save a bit of grumbling in the forums. Until FeelThere/Wilco cross a line that the majority of the community is unwilling to accept, nothing changes, and in fact, things may even somehow get worse.You bring up CaptainSim, a truly fine example of how fickle and inconsistent this community can be. Few, if any, are unaware of what they pulled with the 757, yet all they had to do was discount the C130 a few months back, and it quite literally flew off the shelves.I personally held off on the A32X series, the 737PIC being my last purchase. Though I was, and still am, mostly satisfied with that package, there are a few lingering items that they have been aware of for easily a year, a few statements made that they would be looked into just about as long ago, that were swept under the rug and haven't been addressed in any way since. The excuse then was the proximity to FSX release, now, well, they don't even bother with excuses.I apologize for rambling, it's just genuinely frustrating, even as a non-owner, to hope for something only to have that hope dashed by such silly decisions as this latest one. I do wish you good luck, and maybe even some satisfaction, out of the product, but I personally have no confidence that they will ever deliver.But hey, they have two new products on the horizon, so get your credit cards ready...

>Until FeelThere/Wilco cross a line that the majority of the>community is unwilling to accept, nothing changes, and in>fact, things may even somehow get worse.>I think you are right.Feelthere knows that this action with cost them a few sales because of people don't buying if no forum is available (like me).But I think they made somekind of calculation/prediction:- Sales loss because no forum available : -- Sales increase because people don't have a clue about the quality since there is no forum : ++The balance is thus +, hence Feelthere feels confident to get away with it.

Let's straight out the facts.Fact #1 the feelThere forum is STILL open for both feelThere and Wilco productsFact #2 if you purchase a product from Wilco under the label "Wilco Publishing" you have no business with the developer. So why are you expecting them to spend time to communicate with you when their customer is in fact Wilco? It's so simple; you paid for Wilco and if you have problem you contact Wilco. Fact #3 Victor clearly stated they will keep their forum open for their current and future (non Wilco) products and they have no plan to lock them ever.Fact #4 whenever I see a feelThere flaming post it's always started or fueled by this very same 4-5 people so there goes credibility.Fact #5 while feelThere is maybe not the #1 developer (but part of the top 3) but they are (with an exception of a handfull) the only developer who actually release products instead of announcing them for years or making banners for unreleased products.I guess feelThere doesn't have to worry about advertisement as the saying goes there is no such a thing as bad advertisement and they can always count on you to bring up their name in every once in a while :) I believe you way overestimate the power of your discussion here.So back to you...QFA

helloNobody is disputing that the forums are still open or not.What is being discussed is the FACT that they have once again predictably withdrawn support for another partialy finished product."Fact #5 while feelThere is maybe not the #1 developer (but part of the top 3)"You are joking , right?

Would you point me to the direction that indicates they've been withdrawn from supporting the Airbus?

http://www.iemit.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9035 . I believe the airbus is a Wilco product...DJ

"the technical support of the Wilco Products will be handled by using Wilco Publishing's support form"I think the word "will" indicate future action therefore they WILL support it but using a different systemhttp://www.iemit.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9042"This is why we are switching to Wilco's support forum because posters can submit their requests only if they fill out the computer system fields. We are not asking this to get away with a non sense answer but to look into a problem we need to know about it as much as possible.""even the reports will be submitted to Wilco we will receive them all. I believe during the past years we've proved ourselves already by patching our products until almost everybody got satisfied (not to mention free fs version patches). You can expect the same in the future as well.""But I can reassure you that all reports sent through the Wilco system will land in our hand with all the necessary information we need (system, etc)."

You are correct - however, there does seem to be some dissatisfaction with Wilco's approach to support. I'm neutral in this argument; on the other hand, I'm more willing to buy a product where there is a visible bug list and developers who are willing to put it all out front.DJ

Wasn't it FeelThere who posted at their site a while back that anyone who brought up the problem of a failed Airbus download after payment would be banned from their forums?Classy. Real classy.

One point people seem to keep missing with the Airbus.....this product was obviously RUSHED to market! I have been following the forum and have NOT spent my money yet, because of all the obvious problems. If this product was beta-tested, perhaps Wilco/Feelthere need to get a better batch of beta-testers!! Obviously, there are still going to be small problems that get through the testing process, but the Airbus looks like it is going to set a record for problems. Actually if you have followed that forum, customers who have made their own projects, have "tweaked" the fde to make it fly like it should. As a paying customer, when I spend $35-50 for a product and it doesn't work as advertised, I don't want to hear from the developer in an arrogant tone, that "Look we are on our 3rd service pack/update, we do respond to our customers". What I would like to hear & see is that"We obviously rushed this out and it has a lot of problems still, so we are pulling the product until we get a handle on it. Then we will release it for sale again, and issue the updates for previous customers".Perhaps also, we purchase these products with a credit card that offers at least a 30 day guarantee on purchases. Now if the developer/publisher now has to spend a portion of their day dealing with the credit card companies, maybe they will get the idea. People, you hold the power, and it's in your wallet!! I have been guilty of this before.....purchasing on the first few days. Now I wait, and look & see.A good rule of thumb......"If things are done right, there is no need for customer service!" Rick