Guys, all I can say is. Keep updated on news and read threads thoroughly. Microsoft said since the start of this situation that they are committed to a flight simulator, even when there was no evidence to back it up. Well, we know there is a confirmation that something is happening at the ACES studio, but it is a secret, so that might make it harder for Austin to be ready on what to expect. When you don't know what kind of flight simulator the next one will be, it makes it difficult because flight simulator at ACES has not been announced and nobody knows if it will be a complete rebuild or overhaul of code, or if it will be a continuation with great features. I can say reading Phil's recent blog post, I doubt with the people from the old ACES studio, that the new FS will be arcade style, or dumbed down. Why? Because if the secret flight simulator was aracade style and did not have great intuitive ideas, they probably would not have come back after they were cut, or they might be ranting, not making happy posts on their blogs (Paul... :() I recommend all of you read these:http://www.futuregpu.org/2009/02/end-of-er...re-updates.htmlhttp://members.microsoft.com/careers/searc...;SortOrder=Desc.http://paul-flightsimguy.spaces.live.com/B...!1246.entry

Gman-I would expect exactly the opposite. The history of Fs went from a release every year to every two years (with a release of combat sim in between) to 3-4 years. Those years without release were lost income for ms and I have a feeling were a big part of the shutdown. Train sims and esp were obviously to placate those lost years during that lost income time but it did not work out to the higher ups satisfaction.What has caused the increased time? More complexity in realism-pure and simple. Simmers demanding complex aircraft, panels, systems, weather, approaches etc. Upper management probably does not understand this fixation-either from a reality in simming standpoint or a delay in product. Perhaps they are right.The vast majority who buy this product I am sure care little about any of these things. They hop in the sim, spend a few minutes flying over their virtual house, get bored and move to something else. They don't care if a turn coordinator shows a true two minute turn, or whether the gps is 100 % functional to the true unit, if the p factor is correct, or even what an approach is. Why spend time on these non profitable items?Therefore, I think and predict the future fs will use windows earth scenery (which will be amazing) with a very simple cockpit types and fm's, that don't take long to develop. It will be a terrific visual experience-which is what most casual users require. The realism of flying aspect other than the outside view will come up short.Xplane and perhaps some newbies will continue the present tradition-possibly if sales on their end justify this .However-look at the iphone sales of xplane right now. Even on the x-plane website he states his attention has been here recently.Lots of money to be made here-and I assure you if you don't have the iphone version-it is not the same flying xplane on the iphone. But the income calls....The past fs came from a tradition of trying to get "as real as it gets" from a loyal team committed to these goals and the backing of even Bill Gates.I think the new slogan will be "as many as we can get"- a whole different focus. $$$ is where it is. My prediction at least-I hope I am wrong, but I'll bet a beer I am right.

Therefore, I think and predict the future fs will use windows earth scenery (which will be amazing) with a very simple cockpit types and fm's, that don't take long to develop. It will be a terrific visual experience-which is what most casual users require. The realism of flying aspect other than the outside view will come up short.

I agree Geofa. I think the next version will be designed to bring in the masses, which would be Ok with me as long as the code allowed the third party developers to add the realisim.Ted

...Therefore, I think and predict the future fs will use windows earth scenery (which will be amazing) with a very simple cockpit types and fm's, that don't take long to develop. It will be a terrific visual experience-which is what most casual users require. The realism of flying aspect other than the outside view will come up short.

That sounds very probable.

...However-look at the iphone sales of xplane right now. Even on the x-plane website he states his attention has been here recently.Lots of money to be made here-and I assure you if you don't have the iphone version-it is not the same flying xplane on the iphone. But the income calls....

I think it's good thing if a company and bring in a few extra $$$ with spin offs like that. Means more resources available to invest in the main product.

I've read through this thread and found it very interesting. It is interesting to see some of the aircraft being developed for X-plane. Visually they are impressive. We get so used to seeing low resolution textures and simple panels that perhaps we don't realise that the sim is capable of much more.I guess it's the same with airport scenery & so on, although the elevation data scenery is impressive.I may be wrong, but, I don't think it's possible yet to produce much in terms of system simlations behind that impressive 777 3D panel for X plane...am I right in thinking that there is a problem is in producing custom gauges and simulating systems in aircraft, and that we are stuck with what's hard coded and that doesn't have much in the way of variables? If so, I would say that this is one problem with X-plane. The other problem is, which has been pointed out often enough, that the developer basically does what he wants, and the developer's interests are often not aligned with those of the flight simulation community.The first problem is nothing to worry about, the second problem is.

I may be wrong, but, I don't think it's possible yet to produce much in terms of system simlations behind that impressive 777 3D panel for X plane...am I right in thinking that there is a problem is in producing custom gauges and simulating systems in aircraft, and that we are stuck with what's hard coded and that doesn't have much in the way of variables?

I think the situation is not that different from MSFS. The default sim has a certain amount of simulation complexity; third parties that want more can code whatever they want in a programming language via a DLL.For custom gauges it is similar; there are built-in features (including driving X-Plane's drawing from DLL code, or driving built-in drawing from a choice of x-plane simulated variable, with customization of artwork and movement) and then as a most flexible but complex step, a DLL can draw its own artwork using any rendering API. (OpenGL is preferred, but you can draw in GDI and then pass the finishe DIB to OpenGL.)There are going to be differences in where the "break points are" - that is, where you run out of flexibility in a relatively easy SDK and have to move to the next more difficult one. But fundamentally I think in both sims simple things are relatively easy and difficult things are possible.cheersben

I may be wrong, but, I don't think it's possible yet to produce much in terms of system simlations behind that impressive 777 3D panel for X plane...am I right in thinking that there is a problem is in producing custom gauges and simulating systems in aircraft, and that we are stuck with what's hard coded and that doesn't have much in the way of variables?

Both Geofa and JeanLuc(RealityXP) have posted in this forum regarding there experiences creating panels/gauges for Xplane (I can't be bothered finding the quotes :()Geofa has recreated his Baron panel in XPlane. I believe he said that XPlane allowed more flexibility (number of inbuilt gauges, configuring needle ranges, stretching) for building his panel than MSFS. Additionally the plugin SDK for Xplane is very comprehensive (datarefs) and so you can program very complex gauges. JeanLuc is creating a GNS for XPlane and seems very impressed with the capabilities for custom gauges. With XPlane you have full access to OpenGL, and can draw directly on OpenGL "textures". XP calls your custom code every visual frame.

Both Geofa and JeanLuc(RealityXP) have posted in this forum regarding there experiences creating panels/gauges for Xplane (I can't be bothered finding the quotes :( )Geofa has recreated his Baron panel in XPlane. I believe he said that XPlane allowed more flexibility (number of inbuilt gauges, configuring needle ranges, stretching) for building his panel than MSFS. Additionally the plugin SDK for Xplane is very comprehensive (datarefs) and so you can program very complex gauges. JeanLuc is creating a GNS for XPlane and seems very impressed with the capabilities for custom gauges. With XPlane you have full access to OpenGL, and can draw directly on OpenGL "textures". XP calls your custom code every visual frame.

That's encouraging news. I hope we see some more interest in this sim in the future. Is wasn't at long ago that MSFS was liem X-plane, then Eric Ernsts started doing his panels for the SAAB and the 767, and suddenly it was whole new sim.May be that's all that's needed with X-plane...

I'm fairly open minded about X-Plane. I have both it and FSX installed and both definately have their strong suits/weaknesses. I think the biggest thing XP is lacking is polish. The fundamentals are there, if handled very differently to FSX. But it all feels rather disjointed and not very well tied together. And, even worse, some parts feel unfinished. The weather system, for example is magnificent. Fog and rain are were FSX really should have been. But the lack of locally variable weather and the way real world weather is handled is just odd. Incorporate a functional system like FSX's or, even better, Active Sky and you can have a real leg up there. Flight dynamics are another. You can tell on a well developed aircraft that there is a lot of factors affecting each aircraft through different phases of flight. But there usually are some weird behaviors that make themselves aparrent around the edges of the performance envelope. Not to mention the control responsiveness issue (if a 172 responded that quickly in real life they'd be a whole lot more entertaining), and the lack of any real feeling of inertia or drag. If development proceeds along the correct course then XP has every possibility to be an absolutely amazing sim. As it sits right now it's really good, but flawed. I have difficulty recommending it to FSX flying friends because of the initial user experience, the default planes, and some lacking features. If that is improved then I would have no reservations about reccomending it to everyone.That said, with the XP dev posting here I'm hopeful that they're listening to our complaints/wishes and will work towards that goal. Frankly I could care less who develops it, if it's good I'll fly it."The staff at my school are actually considering replacing ELITE with X-Plane in the small single-engine simulator labs. I personally hope they don't now and i am personally glad i finished IFR with the help of ELITE and MSFSX."A fellow Aims student? If so Hello! :( Frankly I think XP will be an upgrade for the labs. The version of ELITE we use is really old and fairly out of date. Plus while the insturment dynamics are good (aside from that infernal compass). The flight dynamics are terrible. Sitting at 60-65kts with the yoke full back in a 172 and not leaving the ground is somehow wrong. Oh and I've never seen a compass swing through 30-60 degrees of motion just by dipping a wing slightly in straight and level flight. A newer version of ELITE probably would have repaired those issues, but they're fairly spendy if I remember correctly.Provided that XP interfaces with the panels correctly it could be a real step up and might lead to less random freakouts. But I haven't played with XP on any of the schools systems so I don't know how that all will work.

I've been looking at those links of X-plane aircraft, posted by Japo32 and MathewS....this kind of stuff.

Then the thought occurred to me....hardly any stuff of this quality is available for X-plane yet.Now if you were a business-minded developer, where would you put your investment? With FSX, that's on its way out, of with X-plane, that's on its way in?X-plane. It's all gonna be X-plane from now on. It has vast potential! It's like a huge empty landscape, waiting to be populated.

I've been looking at those links of X-plane aircraft, posted by Japo32 and MathewS....this kind of stuff.

Then the thought occurred to me....hardly any stuff of this quality is available for X-plane yet.Now if you were a business-minded developer, where would you put your investment? With FSX, that's on its way out, of with X-plane, that's on its way in?X-plane. It's all gonna be X-plane from now on. It has vast potential! It's like a huge empty landscape, waiting to be populated.

There is no actual proof that the Microsoft FS franchise is to be no more. Lots of conjecture, but no proof.As for X-Plane's potential... still not seeing it, from a developer viewpoint.

Now if you were a business-minded developer, where would you put your investment? With FSX, that's on its way out, of with X-plane, that's on its way in?[/size]X-plane. It's all gonna be X-plane from now on. It has vast potential! It's like a huge empty landscape, waiting to be populated.

I see that ROTW, a group of individuals who created a series of addons for FLY, is back at it again, with FLY Legacy. As to X-Plane, hasn't it been around for 15 years or so?L.AdamsonBTW-- I'm mellowing out today. Flew the RV after several months of panel re-work, and all was well. I'm so mellowed out, that if X-Plane succeeds as the new sim of sims...................then so be it.. :(

I've been looking at those links of X-plane aircraft, posted by Japo32 and MathewS....this kind of stuff.

Then the thought occurred to me....hardly any stuff of this quality is available for X-plane yet.Now if you were a business-minded developer, where would you put your investment? With FSX, that's on its way out, of with X-plane, that's on its way in?X-plane. It's all gonna be X-plane from now on. It has vast potential! It's like a huge empty landscape, waiting to be populated.

This is what you consider good quality in X-Plane? Visually it looks good as does the panel, but it's flight model is nowhere near accurate. I've flown on 2 AT-6's, (an SNJ-5 and a Harvard) both doing aerobatics. I can tell you right now, you can't loop an AT-6 in 9 seconds. Also it's stall speed is 72MPH not 40! Turns seem too fast also.

Aren't the flight anomalies the responsibility of the designer of the aircrsft and my not be any fault in X-Plane?The crude aircraft in the demo are a liability for the product. I can't bring myself to get beyond($$) the demo given the aircraft. Also, I asked, on their forum, what the limits were on scenery/texture and mesh/DEM resolution and no one knew, at least within a few days of the question. Neither of these elements , in the demo, would encourage me to buy X-Plane after experiencing 60cm photoscenery and 5M mesh in Hawaii via FSX.

As to X-Plane, hasn't it been around for 15 years or so?

Yes...with MSFS as its major competitor. FSX has had a user base probably 100x bigger than that of X-planes, so, it's hardly surprising that it's been silently hanging around for the last 15 years is it, when all the focus has been on bigger sim? However, the winds of change are blowing. Suddenly I see a future for X-plane. I see a big opportunity for X-plane add-on developers. And they are already starting to do it. For example, Gary Summons, who produces the UK2000 scenery series, has announced that he is going to start making scenery for X-plane. And of course it makes complete business sense to do so. It's never a good idea to put all your eggs into one basket - especially now when you know that basket won't be around in a few years.May be one day a replacement will appear for FSX, and may it will be good, but there is no "proof" of this. All we can do is go on the information that is available now, and base our decsions on that. And one thing is clear here. The Flight Simulator franchise, if not dead, is going to stand still for several years, and stagnate.Sometimes, you just have to turn over a new leaf.I agree that FSX is in many ways the superior sim, and I am very saddened about the demise of the franchise, and also angry at Microsoft for the decision. Part of me wants to protest about this decision by boycotting whatever version they bring out in the future by way of replacement. One reason for this is that I do not like the fact that MS just took our toys away without notice, so to speak, because they have this new a strategy that they are going to impose on us whether we want it or not. If there is a future version, it will in all likelihood be a Windows Live! version that will require a log on to play. In this case it will require any add-ons to be submitted by developers to Microsoft for approval, and, as Tom Allensworth suggested, this will probably mean an end to freeware. The whole creative atmostphere and freedom of 3rd party development will be stifled by Microsoft taking absolute control over this product. Should we support them in this by continuing to be faithful customers? There will be very limited choice for users and every choice will have $$$ attached to it. I don't know about you but I would feel like dumb user, who'd been slapped in the face, and served what M$ decided was good for me, and being made to pay for it!! We should not accept this situation, for the reasons stated and also because by accepting it we would be supporting M$ in achieving their ultimate goal - absolute control over their users. Why give them that? It is the market that should determine the product, not the manufacturer.I have some involvement in games development (I am responsible for the Titanic in Ship Simulator 2008), and also have some experience with programming, and working with 3D engine implementation. I've never considered producing add-ons for flight simulators before - but I am now for X-plane and it's an exciting thought!Jason

I'll state it again... no one has produced factual data that shows Microsoft will not ever release Flight Sim again.It has been stated that MS flat out refuses to sell the FS franchise, to me that speaks volumes to their belief it is still a viable product.