As I already said, X-Plane over-sensitivity, or at least part of it, _could_ be due to differences in which MSFS and X-Plane manage control inputs.I know for sure MSFS airfiles have usually limited control authority: try to set full trim down in the default Cessna and you'll realize that you can't stall the airplane, even at low speed. Is it the only trick MSFS uses to decrease the sensitivity? I don't know.

I haven't bothered trying that, but actually it's a good idea. It would provide the sensation of stick forces being so high, that you'd never pull the yoke back far enough to stall. We were faced with some of the same situations when I beta tested for third party aircraft. For instance the airplane is on auto-pilot and wings are level. If you move the yoke right or left, do the ailerons immediately move as the airplane banks right or left...............or do you keep the plane stable as though there is resistance in the yoke due to the servos, until you try banking harder which overrides the A/P. And do you want to animate the resistance, or just let the aileron move, but not the immediate roll of the airplane? Another example is creating the feel of building airspeed in ground effect. Without re-trimming, the sensation is for the airplane to rise (balloon). You push the yoke forward a small amount, and feel the forces to keep the plane level...........because you're not re-trimming. In this case, the flight model can not pitch down, just because you're exerting forward pressure on the yoke. If it doesn't pitch down, you'll have the sensation of pushing against a force. It's the same as when a simulated Cessna high wing pitches up with flap deflection. You seem to feel the force, and push against it, to keep the plane level.

Imagine flying a real C172 with a yoke without feedback and with halved full travel: don't you think it would feel much more sensitive? There's a good reason why aviation authorities impose that every aircraft must have a minimum level of control-force per g-load.

With my RV6A, I actually use very little of the full travel for even high banking turns. Normal turns are only an inch or two each way. If a person jumps from a Cessna 172 to an RV, without getting use to it, they might have a real problem of over controlling. I see the same thing with flight sims or R/C. If someone, or even a pilot tries simming or R/C for the first time, they have a tendency to over control. Over the years, I've got very use to sensitvity with different lengths of joysticks. So for me, with half travel, I'd probably not even notice. I'd just make movements to get the job done. You still need to build in that "feel" of resistance though, which has to vary with airspeeds. I'll equate the term resistance, as "dampening" the control response.L.Adamson

With my RV6A, I actually use very little of the full travel for even high banking turns. Normal turns are only an inch or two each way. If a person jumps from a Cessna 172 to an RV, without getting use to it, they might have a real problem of over controlling.

That's interesting Larry! Probably you never tried it for obvious reasons, but what roll rate do you guess you could achieve, in theory, with full aileron deflection in your RV6A, at typical flight speeds?

You still need to build in that "feel" of resistance though, which has to vary with airspeeds. I'll equate the term resistance, as "dampening" the control response.

I agree, that's something Austin needs to work on in X-Plane! :)The interesting thing is, until X-Plane version 5.99 the flight model was much more damped, and it became gradually more twitchy during v6 and v7 runs.Marco

(2) what the simulator is _capable_ of (e.g. what is permitted by the SDK) given enough time and effort via a third party) andAs a developer of the core sim, I am most concerned with item (2) because if it isn't possible to do X, only someone from LR can remove that road block.

It is very reassuring to hear this from a LR developer! IMHO to continue evolving the power of the simulator (and exposing this power via the SDKs) is what will encourage more 3rd party developers to develop new products or port existing products to X-Plane.Really looking forward to v9.30!

I personally can't tolerate those hand colored cockpits anymore-both the panels, glareshields, and instruments. There is quite a difference at least to me in real looks from the first shot to the last real one. Can one do real looking ones in xplane-both panels/real working instruments? I haven't seen any yet but would love to see some. Most add on fsx planes have a much more realistic higher quality look e.g. Dreamfleet Dakota, Eaglesoft Commanche etc.

I've not tried, but it would seem you can use your own textures for gauges and panels.See this X-Plane panel tutorial for more information.

This statement doesn't sound very ethical IMO.Let's say that this is not the right moment for this kind of advertizing and that's not very fair for the ACES team.

I fully agree with that, this is not the time or the place for him to act like that. Right now a lot of people just got put out of work and he pulls this crap, that's just a being a ######.

I fully agree with that, this is not the time or the place for him to act like that. Right now a lot of people just got put out of work and he pulls this crap, that's just a being a ######.

I am very happy he made the announcement since it's what sparked my interest in X-Plane 9. It's not his fault Microsoft pulled the plug on ACES and has thrown FS11/TS2/ESP2 on the junk heap. There seem to be a lot of Austin bashers here at AVSIM, is name calling really necessary?

In otherwords, if there is a difference in "feel" in the sims, I would like to know whether it is in joystick processing, control deflection, or the flight model.

It may "simply" lie in the way FS models the "mass" of the a/c via specific MOI's (Moments of Inertia)...Having no experience at all with X-Plane, I have no idea how that sim handles "mass..."I'm also no "fde guru" in FS either. I'm a simple 3d modeler, graphic artist and systems/gauge engineer... :(

It may "simply" lie in the way FS models the "mass" of the a/c via specific MOI's (Moments of Inertia)...Having no experience at all with X-Plane, I have no idea how that sim handles "mass..."

X-Plane automatically computes MOI's from aircraft geometry (usually it tends to underestimate them a bit), but it can be overriden, and the aircraft designer can manually put custom MOI's just like in MSFS.However, from various tests made from the users, it has been determined that the over-sensitivity is not due to MOI's being too low, so at least one possible culprit has been ruled out. :)Marco

Have you seen the C172 that's included in the XPlane 9.22 demo? Excellent 3D cockpit and external modeling, definitely Carenado level of quality.

Thanks Matt, and no I had not seen it.I might D/l the demo and give it a try. Cheers and thanks for the info.

Honestly, since this was written on HIS OWN WEBSITE I can't see the problem. Advertising is advertising, business is buisness, and as his project appears to be the main alternative left now he would be mad not to push his product. Should Toyota stop all advertising since the big US carmakers are stuggling and sacking workers? C'mon, let's not turn MSFS into a sacred cow that no-one else should try to compete with. If you want to be ######, be ###### at Microsoft for axing MSFS. I wonder if Austin had announced he was killing off X-Plane would people be calling MS tacky for advertising FS?Cheers, SLuggy

Thanks Matt, and no I had not seen it. I might D/l the demo and give it a try.

Well the Carendo model/textures are a little better, but the default X-Plane C172 is definitely worth a look. I only own the Carenado 152 (FSX) and I was a little disappointed at the slowish gauge refresh rate (I assume their C172 is the same). One thing that really impresses me about X-Plane is the high fps of the gauges (2d and especially 3d cockpit) compared to FSX.

I am very happy he made the announcement since it's what sparked my interest in X-Plane 9. It's not his fault Microsoft pulled the plug on ACES and has thrown FS11/TS2/ESP2 on the junk heap. There seem to be a lot of Austin bashers here at AVSIM, is name calling really necessary?

Personally I like X-Plane, but Austin just pulled a real ###### move, you flat out don't act like that in this situation. He isn't even being really even acting like a decent person.

Well the Carendo model/textures are a little better, but the default X-Plane C172 is definitely worth a look. I only own the Carenado 152 (FSX) and I was a little disappointed at the slowish gauge refresh rate (I assume their C172 is the same). One thing that really impresses me about X-Plane is the high fps of the gauges (2d and especially 3d cockpit) compared to FSX.

Or you can always try the RealAir products. Best single engine flight dynamics and super smooth gauges too. And yes, they are just as smooth as X-Planes.L.Adamson

Personally I like X-Plane, but Austin just pulled a real ###### move, you flat out don't act like that in this situation. He isn't even being really even acting like a decent person.

I also have X-Plane 8 & 9 in addition to MSFS's FS9 & FSX.............................and Austin's over indulgence in smart*** publicity has raised my dander. That's why I'm on this small campaign to let the world know, that X-Planes super flight models, are really not that superior at all. If they had been, I'd have jumped the MSFS ship years ago; just like I did for Pro-Pilot over FS98. After all, in addition to 8 & 9, I've used the X-Plane demos for far too many years!L.Adamson

I also have X-Plane 8 & 9 in addition to MSFS's FS9 & FSX.............................and Austin's over indulgence in smart*** publicity has raised my dander. That's why I'm on this small campaign to let the world know, that X-Planes super flight models, are really not that superior at all. If they had been, I'd have jumped the MSFS ship years ago; just like I did for Pro-Pilot over FS98. After all, in addition to 8 & 9, I've used the X-Plane demos for far too many years!L.Adamson

Sure, MSFS and XPlane both have good and bad points. However MSFS will never get any better since FS11 has been consigned to the dustbin. In 5 years you'll be using X-Plane and FS9/FSX will just be a distant memory! :(