I know what FLC should do. As I explained earlier in the thread, it should use the elevator to hold a constant speed. What I was seeing was it trying to do that, but over controlling, resulting in a climb then a dive then a climb. That's what I'm talking about.

Well Spaceman... the only incidence I have ever seen of that is as I described above, it occurs below about 8000 feet. It's a very gentle oscillation. I commented on this in the F1 Mustang forum a while back. I also commented that it was a very minor event and hardly an issue and certainly not worth tinkering with in an attempt to eliminate.I suspect that you reason you saw this behaviour was because you were simply hitting FLC while the aircraft was accelerating rapidly, rather than using pitch mode or VS first. With all that excess energy to tame, it's no wonder you saw instability. It's up to the pilot to stabilise the aircraft before engaging FLC. It's clear that very few, or even no one, is having this issue, so I feel confident that by using VS or pitch mode first you should be okay.As SAS263 commented there is no 'workaround' a workaround is not required from our perspective, the techniques described are normal operating procedures. In fact hardly any different to the procedures I would use with IAS hold in regard to any aircraft.Hope you try again, and without incident, it would be a shame to miss out on a great add-on.Martin. :(

Agree 100% with SAS and Martin above. If the Flight1 Mustang is operated correctly, it works fine...just like the real one.In all fairness to Spaceman though, I do stand corrected on my misuse of "FLC" in my previous post. I meant "autopilot" in general, but got caught up in my typing and used the wrong reference word. I was trying to imply you can use EITHER the FLC or VS mode of the autopilot to set a speed OR rate of climb, but not BOTH at the same time. In either case, the FADAC will try to accomplish what you want based on the detent position of the throttle, but in some cases (like during descents), there is no detent position for that phase of flight that will work. Thus, the pilot will have to manually "set throttles" to maintain an acceptable performance of the aircraft within the flight envelope. During climbs, with the throttle in the "Climb" detent", the pilot must also be involved in monitoring and CHANGING, if necessary, a set speed or set rate of climb, and adjust it using the FLC or VS function, to also maintain an acceptable performance level that won't cause problems.FalconAF

To save your sanity and lower the aggravation factor by magnitudes, fly this at lower altitudes, between 20-23k. Like all straight wing jets, it's high altitude performance sucks. 'Near jets' add a third catagory to 'low and slow, high and fast', now we have 'high and slow'. To get any straight wing above FL30 you need a lot of patience, or grab a 'real jet', like the Citation X, Lear 60, etc. I know someone is going to jump in and say something about fuel burn at lower altitudes and to that I say, I aint never bought a drop of fuel in FS :(

Agree 100% with SAS and Martin above. If the Flight1 Mustang is operated correctly, it works fine...just like the real one.

I have a lot of problem with this statement but I am not going to beat a dead horse.. I am with Spaceman on this one.

Not trying to be a smartalec here, but you keep refering "the work around". What precisely in our explanations on how to properly manage the airplane is it you consider to be a work around? I

Gotcha. I don

I read the 'Flying for Dummies' handbook and this works great for me.... get the plane cleaned and climbing. Watch the speed tape and adjust pitch to increase/decrease climb rate for target climb speed. When the tape shows the speed you want, hit FLC. No chasing, no occiliating, no proposing. You will have to use VS eventually if you have too high a speed and ROC to lower the ROC and speed, as it will not maintain a 200kt climb all the way to FL30.

The work around I'm referring to is the need to go to VS mode before you go to FLC mode.

wouldn't say this was a work-around at all. Remember, it's not a turbo prop with IAS, it's a VLJ with a pretty good power to weight ratio. If you hit FLC while the aircraft is still accelerating, then there has to be sudden pitch change to accommodate the excess energy. It's just good piloting to use VS or pitch mode first I would say.

I think the most common user/pilot error is to take off and engage the AP before the aircraft is in a stable "mode",

I don't see an issue with that SAS, as long as you haven't pre selected FLC.Simply because the aircraft would be in pitch mode, the pitch would remain stable and the variable would be speed, so no pitch changes. Same applies to VS.

Interesting discussion regarding FLC versus VS and the such.Autopilots have limits built into them. Pitch limits, roll limits. The primary purpose of these limits is to ensure passenger comfort. Pitch and roll limits are based on degrees per second, degrees acceleration (how quickly it gets to the maximum degrees per second), acceleration and minimum/maximum limits.FLC is a speed-protected vertical mode. This means that it will never, ever command the aircraft into a stall, nor will it ever command the aircraft into an overspeed condition. VS is not typically a speed-protected vertical mode. It will allow a stall or an overspeed. It is typically considered the most dangerous (as in can kill you) vertical autopilot mode available.If you activate FLC for a climb, the autopilot will never command a descent. If you activate FLC for a descent, the autopilot will never command a climb.FLC shouldn't ever command a sudden pitch up or down upon activation... even if the aircraft is accelerating. It's built-in limits should reduce it's tendency to react rapidly in such a manner that it would be uncomfortable for the passengers. FLC doesn't "hunt" or "porpoise" either.

I don't see an issue with that SAS, as long as you haven't pre selected FLC.Simply because the aircraft would be in pitch mode, the pitch would remain stable and the variable would be speed, so no pitch changes. Same applies to VS.

True, but you edited out the "bad" part mate, "I think the most common user/pilot error is to take off and engage the AP before the aircraft is in a stable "mode", i.e. it is accelerating and/or changing its rate of climb. The pilot then selects FLC and rapidly turns the knob to whatever airspeed he wants to climb out with". The effects of this are exactly what you described earlier in your post so we

If you activate FLC for a climb, the autopilot will never command a descent. If you activate FLC for a descent, the autopilot will never command a climb.FLC shouldn't ever command a sudden pitch up or down upon activation... even if the aircraft is accelerating. It's built-in limits should reduce it's tendency to react rapidly in such a manner that it would be uncomfortable for the passengers. FLC doesn't "hunt" or "porpoise" either.

Ed... your missing something! Something that confuses many regarding the Mustang.You can thank Cessna for the confusion, FLC is not akin to flight level change in a big jet. The Mustang FLC mode is more like indicated airspeed hold. If you were in a gentle climb and then brought the thrust levers back to idle it would command a descent as it attempted to maintain the selected speed. [stick the speed brakes out as well if you want to see a more extre example] It wouldn't care if it were ascending or descending only holding the speed.The Mustang is not a 747. :(The extreme pitch up and down that Spaceman sees, I don't, and I don't know anyone else that does, that treats the mode like IAS hold, thats what it is, nothing more.

Then it is not FLC, and despite the button's label it shouldn't be called such.You're telling me it flat out ignores all safety concerns and probably ignores altitude constraints as well.However, despite your statement that it's not actually a FLC mode.... it should not be behaving as described with regards to porpoising.Oh, and drop the 'is not a 747' shtick... The Cessna Citation X isn't a 747 but it has true FLC and VNAV. It's not something only large jets have.

Ed... your missing something! Something that confuses many regarding the Mustang.You can thank Cessna for the confusion, FLC is not akin to flight level change in a big jet. The Mustang FLC mode is more like indicated airspeed hold. If you were in a gentle climb and then brought the thrust levers back to idle it would command a descent as it attempted to maintain the selected speed. [stick the speed brakes out as well if you want to see a more extre example] It wouldn't care if it were ascending or descending only holding the speed.The Mustang is not a 747. :( The extreme pitch up and down that Spaceman sees, I don't, and I don't know anyone else that does, that treats the mode like IAS hold, thats what it is, nothing more.

Martin, sounds like Cessna should have labled FLC to read IAS Hold instead. We've used that sim logic in previous jets prior to CX Extreme 2.0 and understand the complexity in sim.Haven't had time to grab the Mustang but look forward to setting aside some time to enjoy her. :(

Then it is not FLC, and despite the button's label it shouldn't be called such.

Correct, for FLC in the mustang read IAS hold. I have no idea why Cessna called it FLC but they did. It's a simple as that really. It behaves no different to IAS hold in any aircraft.

You're telling me it flat out ignores all safety concerns and probably ignores altitude constraints as well.

It behaves just like IAS hold in any aircraft, in that it holds the speed by adjusting pitch. It obeys altitude constraints in that it climbs to the selcted altitude.

However, despite your statement that it's not actually a FLC mode.... it should not be behaving as described with regards to porpoising.

As I said above, the only porpoising I see is a minor oscilation, barely perceptable at low altityude, not an issue at all.From the Mustang G1000 PDF. Page 10.

Flight Level Change, IAS HoldMaintains the current aircraft airspeed(in IAS or Mach) while the aircraft isclimbing/descending to the SelectedAltitudeFLC Key

http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/G1000:Cessn...erenceGuide.pdf

Haven't had time to grab the Mustang but look forward to setting aside some time to enjoy her.

My current favourite Ron, and I'm a fussy devil.Need to try out SP2 tonight. And have a bash at the Sid's and Star's. :(To be honest I haven't flown it much over the last couple of weeks as my son's been home form university. As usual he hogged my PC. Grrr!