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Bill A

At the moment there is much hype about FS2004, but I bet...

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2 weeks after the release at the latest, the whining for a patch will start. :-lolWolfgang

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yup how trueand all the ohhhhh and ahhhhhs will stoponce they all realise that all these screen shots they see are taken with all the sliders on max, and all of us cant run FS2004 on all sliders maxed.

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Jeez, I thought I was the only one getting tired of hearing about the previewers talk about "volumetric clouds". LOL Actually, I made a comment a few weeks ago about this subject and it was like I had insulted someones mother. Not knowing when to keep my head down, I started an other thread this morning about "eye candy" (AI ATC Ground thread)Just friendly thoughts, this time! Fitz

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The patch whining will probably come from those people who "didn't realize" the screenshots were taken at max sliders, and the system impact it requires.Luckily, I think most of us have intelligent heads on our shoulders and understand that to get fluid motion equivilant to the beautiful screenshots we see is going to require some "beautiful" system specs.I trust Microsoft (ack - never thought i'd say that) to test this fully and have it *reasonably* bug free upon release. Starting with FS2002, it appears that MS has assembled a Flight Sim team who cares deeply about the product, it's features, and "doing it right".I'm MUCH more concerned about the folks who will be complaining that it doesn't run smooth on their P2-400 or that the blurries aren't fixed, even though that is a critical "feature" making it run smoother. Hell - there are still some jaded folks calling FS2004 a patch to FS2002!I should get to work,-Germ

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Anyone care to guess how many whiney posts are made when it's released? :-lol---Banners? We don't need no stinkin' banners!---Visualize FSGateway/ProjectAI sig banner here

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NONE.. we are going to build in a "AI whine filter" here so that any message that even hints of a whine will be sent to the dev/null bucket. Okay Matt, your next project awaits you! :-lol

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tom, I beleive cheesecloth makes a good whine filter.B

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PRESS RELEASE - Seattle, 23 July 2003Microsoft Corporation has announced major changes to its much heralded "FS2004 - Century of Flight", released today.Bill Gates, Chairman of Microsoft and extremely rich person, had this to say:"We decided that, in view of the enormous number of complaints we had received about the sim from people who had never even seen it, we should remove all the aircraft from the software so that people can continue to look at thin air. This will also give the experienced user a clearer view of the changes we have made to weather patterns, ATC, roads and VFR scenery. Without the distraction of actually having to fly, nitpicking will be a far easier process thus guaranteeing a flood of entries in the flight simulation forums worldwide and, thereby, greatly increasing the exposure of our product.We are also pleased to announce that we will provide a 'patch' in due course to ensure the satisfaction of our very discerning audience. It will probably be plaid, with stitched edges; we were thinking of pink with a hint of yellow but will closely follow our user input focus groups to determine the best course of action.It may be, if the popularity of our new simulation is as great as we expect it to be, that we will include one or two aircraft for the sim at that time. Business is always somewhat of a calculated risk, but that is one we may have to take.Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to a Century of Flight".Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

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To this day, I see screenshots in FS2002 with fps half mine, on systems twice my speed, and no detail in the shot that makes it better than what I can post.Why? Because such shots may be produced under the impact of subtle, unseen settings, such as AI, water reflections, screen res, etc... I've no doubt the same is happening with the FS2004 shots.I never felt the issues surrounding a FS2002 patch were fully resolved. Multiplayer was left with a lot of serious issues, and it was left to third party scenery designers and FDE designers to fix certain aspects of the sim. I think Microsoft put themselves into an artificial box by being adamant about its "as is" policy for FS2002. In the end, FS2002 works for most of us as is... But it would have been better for Microsoft to leave the door cracked slightly open.Even w/o a patch, I would rank FS2002 as the best flight simulator of all time, and the most flexible given the wide range of systems out there. We can only hope Microsoft hasn't changed that path with FS2004....

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Hi, "and all the ohhhhh and ahhhhhs will stoponce they all realise that all these screen shots they see are taken with all the sliders on max, and all of us cant run FS2004 on all sliders maxed."Statement about full slide do not means anythings major on graphics, mesh at full slider right is useless and frame rate killer for nothing, Autogen slider you can drop this little and you frame rate will be improved cloud slider etc. The graphics will not drop major at all.Fs2002 at the release the higher computer available was the 1.4GHZ , 3d card 64 meg gforce 2 available in the market. How many user have the slider to full right at the release? Fs2004 is for two years, product is made for two years. not one years like many.If you bought any 3d complex latest games comparable to Flight sim with many details, you will require a mid or high system fro the market release, if you want many many details enabled.Before Fs2002 release system market:Lower systemPIII 450mhz ghz, 3d card 32 meg, 128 ramMidPIII 800, 3d card 64 meg, 512 ramHighPIII 1.4 GHZ, 64 meg ram, 512ram, 1024 ramBefore Fs2004 system market release: Lower System1.4 ghz, 3d card 64 meg, 256 ramMid2.4, 3d card 128 meg, 512 ramHigh3.4, 3d card 256 ram, 512, 1024 ramAlso Statement you heard about fs2004 at E3 on performance with the betaX are not the final conclusion.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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The Whining has already begun. There was just a screenshot, on another thread about use of multiple runways, and there were multiple whines about how the daytime anticollision lights were too bright and how Microsoft was placing style before realism.PLEASE.

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FS2004 needs a patch!! FS2004 is totally crud, it's unusable! It won't load on my Pentium 75 with 16MB RAM! It needs to be patched!!:-xxrotflmao{/badhumour}I think the whining and complaining started the same day as the first ever screenshot was released... :(But I'll bet those complainers will be out buying FS2004 soon enough anyways..... :)

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>The Whining has already begun. There was just a screenshot,>on another thread about use of multiple runways, and there>were multiple whines about how the daytime anticollision>lights were too bright and how Microsoft was placing style>before realism.>>PLEASE. Yeah! Just Thursday there was a new LOMAC video released that shows a jet diving down towards the runway, and you should have heard all the "whining" going on in the Ubi forum about the smoky black ribbons coming off the wingtips and trailing in the jet's wake. True...those black ribbons coming from the wingtips did look rather odd and should probably be a different color, but honestly, what "whiners"--I mean, the product hasn't even been released yet. You should hear these people; who do they think they are???Then there was the time a few weeks ago when engine heat exhaust cones were previewed in another LOMAC video. Uh, the "whiners"--you should have heard them! The heat exhaust plume was "too wide"; it was "too sharp" on the edges; it didn't "look right." I mean, what were they thinking???Funnily enough the heat exhaust looked pretty good in the most recent video though...perhaps the developers had re-worked it. Oh well, those people who suggested those very improvements are still "whiners"--I know that for a fact because it's very fashionable to call them names like that in places like this, and all you folks who do that can't be wrong! I mean, there's just too many of you to be wrong, so they're definitely "whiners." Right? No doubt about it....

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This a trend that has been increasing lately in some of the Avsim forums. I fail to see that if someone is friendly, polite and articulate about the subject matter, even if it contains criticism's of a yet to be released product, that he should be labled a "whiner". I thought these were open to free discussion's. I'm sure it was made in good fun, but even one of the moderater's made a comment about a "whine filter" ( though I could have used one of those raising my kid's!). Critisism can be good and productive. Putting labels on people is not. Just a few FRIENDLY thought's. Fitz retired nonconformist

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Heh, I'll start that right now... FS2004 is shaping up to be one of the biggest disappointments ever... Those clouds, to me, are hardly worthy of a new release. You can get nearly the same effect with other freeware products available now for FS2002. The only thing that might turn me into a convert will be if they actually get frontal systems done right, with winds shifting as they should as you pass through the front, clouds actually building up instead of just materializing in front of you as you fly, etc.But I'm not hopeful... None of the screenshots I've seen so far suggest anything more than mere eye candy.

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>2 weeks after the release at the latest, the whining for a>patch will start. :-lol>>WolfgangI thought this was the patch!Tim

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Hi, "Those clouds, to me, are hardly worthy of a new release. You can get nearly the same effect with other freeware products available now for FS2002."Complelty wrong, the visual and weather engine is not available annywhere from 3rd party in fs2002. Fs2002 weather engine remain non fixable bugs and limited. In fs2004 you have a completly new weather engine, with weather maps, dynamics weather, clouds that's do not disappears a la fs2002 when you get higher or lower in distant, non line in the horizon, tons of clouds type selection available built in by default,Far clouds, clouds front, clouds can reach high altitude, clouds that's form and dissipate according to the condition, new rain/snow, new lightning bold etc. Also add, 3d clouds, environment sky color and accurate lights on clouds non available in fs2002. These information was already available in the past from previous preview and screenshots on many web site.If you tell me it is like fs2002, there is serious problem here..RegardsChris

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Hi, "I thought this was the patch!"It's depend if you know what's is a patch..Go see what's is a patch from Medal of Honor and BatteFeild from a High Company Standard Line product's.Product's that's require tons of patch = A bad product from the start with tons of error and trying to save the franchiseThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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"Product's that's require tons of patch = A bad product from the start with tons of error and trying to save the franchise"Here I have to step in and disagree. Ole Lange, author of No Limits, arguably the best Coaster sim out there, has released several patches in the year and a half since No Limits release. No Limits had fewer problems out of the gate than FS2002 did (although Microsoft didn't patch FS2002, there were/are some things broken in the sim--copter gear that wouldn't retract unless you hit pause, multiplayer, PEI (or the lack thereof), and an odd missing object error in two major scenery areas of the sim--near London and JFK).All the things I mentioned, with the exception of multiplayer and the copter issue, were addressed in one way or another by the community--not by Microsoft. And except for multiplayer, I think all were very minor. Ole had fewer issues with his sim, which is also complex. Not only did he patch them--he didn't stop there. He added to the sim features which he felt needed to be there--features he felt his customers didn't have to pay for. He's a small player against giants like Microsoft, which is exactly why he fixed issues that I don't think Microsoft would have patched, had they owned No Limits. It just comes down to what wins business and maintains it. Microsoft can maintain business in part because a large community exists to support their product. With a smaller user base, Ole HAS to maintain business himself to succeed, and is using a smart strategy, IMHO. I'll be a customer as long as he's in business.-John

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Like, what's with all the people who complained about PEI being underwater?I mean, come on, how many people actually fly there?Whiners.;)>2 weeks after the release at the latest, the whining for a>patch will start. :-lol>>Wolfgang

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2 weeks?The fs.com forums locked a post whining about an FS2004 patch LAST MONTH, a full 3 months BEFORE release of the sim...

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You obviously feel personally insulted by people calling your whining whining?Take FS2002 as an example. There was nothing major wrong with it, certainly nothing warranting a patch (which is after all meant to be an emergency fix for an immediate and serious problem affecting either a very important customer or the majority of customers).Patches are specifically NOT meant to improve eyecandy and fix minor flaws that don't seriously affect product usability.

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