I think the Flight1 and JustPlanes folks do provide a service very similar to Steam. But as mentioned above the prices are far too high for certain titles. I mean with steam you can get most older games for a fraction of their original costs. I think some of the community just forgets basic economics, Especially since there are very little marginal cost associated with additional sales. For example, PMDG can get away with selling an aircraft for $80 dollars.. but within a year that number should drop to $60 than eventually $40. Maybe no lower than that, but in a sense you're milking the market for what it's worth. Effectively in the first year you've already tapped the market that can bare $80. Well the fact is there are still more people in the market they're just only willing to pay $60, and so on. As a user I personally wouldn't be offended by this approach at all. I paid $80 only a few months ago for the 747X, now it's $30 dollars at best buy... do I care? Not at all I'm actually happy for both Aerosoft/PMDG and of course the pricing is just what the mass market can bare, especially since it's two years old already. Look at the Iphone... they made a mistake originally and dropped the price by $200 immediately, had nothing to do with cost of development. People bought it at the original price, but far more people bought it at the lower price.In economics demand is determined by one good versus all other goods, given a certain level of income. Supply is primarily determined by fixed + marginal costs. Put them together and you get the market. You can't just focus on one side of it especially when there are virtually zero marginal costs given the maturity of your product and the likelihood of having to provide support is significantly lower. I just read today how a certain vendor's main technical support issues are due to new customers leaving the "failure mode" on in the product :)Also think about the stock market. You want say 100,000 shares in a company who's block trading size is 1000. In order to get those shares you're going to have to make 100 different trades. You start with the block that cost's the less and keep paying more until you get all 100 blocks. Obviously software markets aren't nearly as efficient, but it just shows not everyone values things equally.

yep . the hidden stuffa machine used to plate metal I worked on has spool feeders that needed adjustment from time to timethe way to do that was in the program code , written in DOS... going thru it once we came to a line that had the wordsMy aren't we nosy! :( :(

Hello,From the news link posted above

Microsoft has not said how it was able to determine which gamers to disconnect.

Far away from the piracy matter .. but more focused on the technical and legal matter I wonder how they determinated the bad chips and if it's a by intrusion in the gamer system .. I wonder also of the legality of the Microsoft claim.Regards.Gus.

Piracy is unstoppable, and alot of people know how to get pirated software; even online activation methods can still be hacked, but lets consider microsoft and their windows; windows 7 was hacked and pirated seconds after and even before initial release date. This would probably lead to losses in hundreds of thousands if dollars, but in almost a billion dollar industry worldwide, it is probably equal to less than 1% of the revenue.Therefore am I right in thinking that money spent on avoiding piracy, would be better spent on producing better quality software, thus increasing popularity and overall revenue/profits.

Far away from the piracy matter .. but more focused on the technical and legal matter I wonder how they determinated the bad chips and if it's a by intrusion in the gamer system .. I wonder also of the legality of the Microsoft claim.

Considering how integrated the XBox is with XBox live, I would imagine that the hardware info is either: a)buried in some EULA is a line stating that MS has the right to poke around looking for modded XBoxes or b)The BIOS, or OS for the XBox is included in the connection information.

Therefore am I right in thinking that money spent on avoiding piracy, would be better spent on producing better quality software, thus increasing popularity and overall revenue/profits.

That is a very reasonable assumption, however, it ever actually being put into practice does not strike me as uhmmmm... doable.Let's not forget that most (if not all) FS addon software already has a mark-up built in to the price to compensate for the percieved loss due to piracy (whether the loss actually exists or not). Are we seeing better products as a result?

All,Do this: do a torrent search for the worst FS payware you think is out there. Don't post what it is, but post your findings.Now, do the same with the BEST FS payware you think is out there. Don't post what it is, but post your findings.Now see if improving the software will decrease the pirated software.Do you think car thieves want your 1972 Pinto or one of today's hottest models?

All,Do this: do a torrent search for the worst FS payware you think is out there. Don't post what it is, but post your findings.Now, do the same with the BEST FS payware you think is out there. Don't post what it is, but post your findings.Now see if improving the software will decrease the pirated software.Do you think car thieves want your 1972 Pinto or one of today's hottest models?

Do you think this is more about quality or price that these people pirate FS addons?Most people, except the most diehard simmers, can't justify a PMDG product at the prices they sell them for on their site, as with most FS addons. That's why people pirate them as much. The best ones get pirated because the best ones are way overpriced.

Do you think this is more about quality or price that these people pirate FS addons?Most people, except the most diehard simmers, can't justify a PMDG product at the prices they sell them for on their site, as with most FS addons. That's why people pirate them as much. The best ones get pirated because the best ones are way overpriced.

Gee-then I guess stealing a real airplane is called for also. It is even higher priced... I can't really justify owning one either...

Gee-then I guess stealing a real airplane is called for also. It is even higher priced... I can't really justify owning one either...

Geof, the point I'm trying to make is this, the reason that people are doing this is they can't justify the price. Most people doing this are in their teens-low-mid 20s. The reason I'm saying this is simple, it's because the fact is, most people can't justify the price. The fact is your now comparing an actual aircraft, which is used for actual transportation, to a piece of addon software. The point is simple, that most people can't see paying that much money for something which they have:A. no idea if it's good or notB. Can't afford it because it's big time pricedIt's the exact same reason people pirate Photoshop and 3ds Max, it's so highly priced, that people can't justify the cost. Think about this, most of these pirates are living on salaries of around 15- 25k a year at best. Considering how much everything costs, do you really think their gonna go legit and buy things when they can barely afford to survive, especially when it's an addon product and as high priced as it is. You don't see well off people pirating as much because they can actually afford the price. Where people who are poor are more likely to steal/pirate because they can't afford it. It's pretty clear from DOJ records that when income goes down, crime goes up. Right now what you have is people who can't justify spending 80 dollars on a addon for a game, when they could better use that money to feed themselves and their families. I am not trying to justify it at all, however I am trying to analyze what is causing it, and when you have actually taken a look at the statistics, it becomes VERY clear why it's happening.Face it, people pirate software for 3 reasons:PriceQualityNot caring about doing the right thingMost of these people fall in to the first 2. It's not a matter of not caring, most of these people will buy things legitly if they can afford it/justify the cost. The fact is though, when you look at these aircraft from the surface, all you see is one or two aircraft which is not enough to justify it to most people. You don't see people stealing aircraft because they are too expensive for a reason, it's because it's not a piece of add-on software for a game they payed 30-50 dollars for. It's a piece of machinery used for transportation, not what can be boiled down to an expansion for a game, and a relatively low content one at that.Oh, and one final rebuttal to that, you can rent a real aircraft, you can't do that with an add-on for a game.

"Geof, the point I'm trying to make is this, the reason that people are doing this is they can't justify the price."..and I am dead serious-I can't justify the price either. When my plane costs $250/hr. vs. taking a commercial airliner for much less-I can't justify it. I am not in my 20's but 52 and I can't justify it-but I guess I am a little old fashioned because it would never occur to me to steal a real airplane so I could enjoy myself at the expense of someone else's hard work-period.. Since you mention rental-the 172 at my fbo which has all the paint on the wing peeled off and is affectionately is called piece of something rents for $100/hr. I can't really justify it either-should I just take it without paying.After all-it is all about what I want.Sorry but I find this logic and the rational dispicable...

..and I am dead serious-I can't justify the price either. When my plane costs $250/hr. vs. taking a comercial airliner for much less-I can't justify it. I am not in my 20's but 52 and I can't justify it-but I guess I am a little old fashioned because it would never occur to me to steal a real airplane so I could enjoy myself at the expense of someone else's hard work-period..

Geof, I'm not implying that kind of stuff, you are misreading. The point I am trying to make is pretty clear to me, however apparently not to you. I'll try to put it another way...People shouldn't steal/illegally download period, however when people are poor, they tend to let their anger at the system and their anger at the big business get in the way of common sense. It's not OK at all to steal, it never is, however you need to try to read in to this from someone who is younger and on a less stable income. You can't justify the price of flying, well remember this, you are someone who has a real passion for flight, am I correct, well that means that you may not be able to justify the cost, however you are more willing to bite the bullet and rent it anyway. On the other hand, most of these pirates are not as passionate about simming. These are the kinds of people who will sim, however they don't count as really hardcore like most of us here. Ether that or they just are people who don't care and are angry at the system. I myself fall in to the category of I can't justify the price, however I won't pirate because it's against my morals, so I just don't buy it or wait for it to go on sale. On the other hand, people who can't justify the price may also be the kind of people that don't care about hurting other people. These are normally the kind of people who don't care, because they don't care about legality.The fact is that it is wrong, however it is also something which needs to be analyzed rather than just flat out bashed. If you take the time to do research on these things rather than just flat out bashing anyone who tries to point out the reasons, you will become much more enlightened than just taking a stance of it's wrong period. What you have to do is to try to figure out why someone does something to prevent it. The fact is that sitting on your butt just complaining about the problems won't change anything, your best bet is to fix the problems so they don't continue happening. In this case, the way to fix it is to stop going about the old way of doing things. We are living in a digital age, and a lot of people who are young don't even realize that they actually are stealing when they download stuff illegally, they just see it as they are just downloading a copy someone else bought, so they think it's sharing. The truth is that we need a different method of thinking than the old ways to be able to analyze what happens in this digital age. The old ways of thinking worked in the old days, however in this new age, you need a new method of thinking to comprehend the truths about what is going on. Old styles of thinking have to be changed to take comprehension of what happens in a newer system. The internet changed commerce in a major way, however it also changed people thinking toward products. If you want to be able to understand this change, you have to open your mind and research the facts about what is actually happening, rather than just looking at things from your old perspective and not deciding to do full on research as to cause and effect of what's happening.I'm noticing by reading between the lines in your remarks to me that you seem to be making some accusations toward me when I am saying this stuff, understand this: I am the kind of person who actually believes in morality and justice. Unlike a lot of people, I actually care, because I know both sides of the coin, and I don't like to do the wrong thing, because I am a good natured person at heart. It seems to me like your starting to question my integrity Geof, which I am kind of offended by, because of the fact that personally, I have this thing about me. If I were to do something wrong, I get overcome by guilt fast, and I go in to a situation where I have a hard time dealing with myself if I were to do something wrong. Because of this, I would not do this kind of crap because I am the kind of person who would not be able to live with myself afterward. Just to give you an idea of the kind of guilt I get, I actually one time had a guilt attack for killing an innocent in an RPG, Morrowind to be exact. That is the level of morality I have, I don't believe in doing wrong when I can avoid it. I also however have no reservations about telling it how it is. That is one of the reasons why I feel I'm a good reviewer, because I don't have a problem with saying "The emperor has no clothes."Finally, here's a little secret, I have paid $125 on a sim before, it is called Steel Beasts Pro PE. The reason I was able to justify the price is because of a few things:A. It's the best tank sim on the marketB. It's a military grade training aid, used by real militaries to allow tankers to practice tactics.C. It was a full on simulatorI don't regret that purchase, in fact I enjoy the sim a lot, and am glad I purchased it. You have to understand something, people will buy something they see the value in. If they don't see the value, they won't buy it.

Well I'll rest my case on your merits...

here's another little interesting reason why people pirate:Simplicity. I'll explain below.I've worked at some MAJOR game studios who use pirated versions of MAX and Photoshop; AND get this, both Adobe and Autodesk knows about it but are ok with it (in fact, the studios tell them about the piracy). Why? because these game studios bought a legal copy for every illegal copy they use. This might seem weird right? Not when you are working in a production studio were time is more valuable than money. Software such as Photoshop and 3DMAX have very, very, very picky anti-piracy stuff built into them. Photoshop for example, reads your machine's hardware when you install it. So if you change out hardware (harddrive, motherboard, video card, etc.) it "thinks" that you have made an illegal copy and stops working. But in a game studio, we are switching out video cards all the time. Nvidia or ATI often send us new cards to try out. But as soon as the IT guy puts the card in, Photoshop pops up with "your copy is illegal please call our support." Now imagine a Sr. Artist who makes 250,000K a year sitting in front of his PC w/ a non-working Photoshop. Sure, IT can call in, but sometimes it can take a day for the problem to get solved. Meanwhile, Mr. 250k/year is burning hundreds of dollars a hour doing nothing. And i've seen this happen in studios many times. I remember once in a very well known Effects Studio where half of the 3DMAX copies expired (btw, when you "buy" 3dmax, it's more like a lease....they expire!). Anyways, so about 10 high-paid artists had nothing to do until IT re-registered their software. That was probably a 15k/hour loss on the studio :)Both Adobe and Autodesk knows about this problem and thus look the other way when companies use illegal copies (after they have bought legal copies of course). In these studios, the legal software are all locked away in storage and never even opened. The illegal copies make every day work much easier. No need to worry when we put in a new video card or add a second harddrive. So do these companies count as stealing? They bought a legal copy but use an illegal copy. This is why you can't compare real-world things with digital software. It doesn't cost Adobe a cent when the studio use an illegal copy, since the real copy was paid for....and that's why Adobe don't complain. But i'm sure Cessna will have a fit if you bought a Cessna but stole another one to use.... hope i'm making sense here. -feng

here's another little interesting reason why people pirate:Simplicity. I'll explain below.I've worked at some MAJOR game studios who use pirated versions of MAX and Photoshop; AND get this, both Adobe and Autodesk knows about it but are ok with it. Why? because these game studios bought a legal copy for every illegal copy they use. This might seem weird right? Not when you are working in a production studio were time is more valuable than money. Software such as Photoshop and 3DMAX have very, very, very picky anti-piracy stuff built into them. Photoshop for example, reads your machine's hardware when you install it. So if you change out hardware (harddrive, motherboard, video card, etc.) it "thinks" that you have made an illegal copy and stops working. But in a game studio, we are switching out video cards all the time. Nvidia or ATI often send us new cards to try out. But as soon as the IT guy puts the card in, Photoshop pops up with "your copy is illegal please call our support." Now imagine a Sr. Artist who makes 250,000K a year sitting in front of his PC w/ a non-working Photoshop. Sure, IT can call in, but sometimes it can take a day for the problem to get solved. Meanwhile, Mr. 250k/year is burning hundreds of dollars a hour doing nothing. And i've seen this happen in studios many times. I remember once in a very well known Effects Studio where half of the 3DMAX copies expired (btw, when you "buy" 3dmax, it's more like a lease....they expire!). Anyways, so about 10 high-paid artists had nothing to do until IT re-registered their software. That was probably a 15k/hour loss on the studio :)Both Adobe and Autodesk knows about this problem and thus look the other way when companies use illegal copies (after they have bought legal copies of course). In these studios, a lot of these software are locked away in storage and never even opened. The illegal copies make every day work much easier. No need to worry when we put in a new video card or add a second harddrive. So do these companies count as stealing? They bought a legal copy but use an illegal copy. This is why you can't compare real-world things with digital software. It doesn't cost Adobe a cent when the studio use an illegal copy, since the real copy was paid for....and that's why Adobe don't complain. But i'm sure Cessna will have a fit if you bought a Cessna but stole another one to use.... hope i'm making sense here. -feng

So how does this equate to when my son was at a major college when I went to visit his dorm-and everyone was running a pirated copy of ms windows, along with a particular piece of high end software for a particular sector that was also pirated and when I questioned him about it he said-ah Dad everyone does it-what is the big deal? Were not some of the worst crimes of the 20th century commited with the same attitude?