I really don't think that there is any reason to despair. The longer I am here, the more convinced that things have always been this way and that there were really no "good old days". There have always been difficult, argumentative people in the fora - in fact, I just read the thread by Captain Slarty, good old Joe who was banned (rightly) and who now seems to have mellowed well. In the same thread, I was reminded of Simon, who often was perceived as a problem member (and he was), but who could be charming when treated well - once, he jumped on me and I simply thanked him for his interesting comments; that pretty much amicably terminated the encounter.And perhaps these are my points: this community is filled with nice, courteous, polite people who are discrete, reserved, enthusiastic, and caring. They (we, I hope!) are the majority, the overwhelming majority of members at Avsim. The incidents that occur, that have always occurred are minor, and while they get all the attention, they do not represent the community; they are just much more visible.It is easy to handle difficult posters and threads, with some simple rules: - don't get involved in controversial posts. After all, why look for trouble? why feed the flames? - if you feel you must reply, wait a day - that post is not going anywhere and there is always time to participate. If, the next day, you still feel strongly that you must reply, wait another day. And so forth, until sooner or later you realize that it was not so important after all. - there is a difference between what people write in short messages on a forum and what they really mean, so don't assume bad intentions or ill-humor based on a few words. It could be, and often is, just the opposite. - avoid offending people by not making ad hominen (personal) attacks, that is, the "you are a moron" type of comments. Also, do not attack somebody's comments (such as "your comments are moronic") since that is pretty much the same thing! Simply state your opinion or remarks without making reference to anybody else's comments. - put it all in perspective. There is so much suffering, violence, hunger, hate, war (and that's just in the Bronx!) so what makes the contents of this forum so important? It is all about a computer game, it is meant to be enjoyable, a pastime, not a source for conflict. Don't make a war over a game. - if you simply cannot see it this way, then maybe you should get out and smell the flowers for a while. Turn off the computer and get in touch with life - play with your children, take the wife out for dinner and dancing, have a beer and gab with your buddies. Do important things, things that really count. Remember that life is short and we won't be here forever. The only thing that counts in the end is the pleasant moments that we spend with family and friends.Best regards.Luis

After the countless PMs and e-mails I've received on this topic over the past couple of days, as well as scouring the forums for endless hours, I can appreciate the opinions coming from both sides of the aisle.Developers, and I'm not going to just point out Ron and Eaglesoft because there are others, do need to try and be more open to constructive criticism. I have found that most, though certainly not all members really just want to express there point of view in hopes that the existing product can be patched/updated, or at the very least hope there voices will be heard to improve the next offering. The problem is that some members, and I do believe it is the minority, choose to approach the topic with uneccesary and often time flat out rude language. There is no need to refer to a product with five different synonyms for the word awful. A few folks discussing the Eaglesoft Citation chose to pile on the adjectives one after the other. What does that accomplish? All it did was draw the developers into a defensive posture, and I can't really blame them, at least as long as they do so respectfully. When developers, who I might add are the only thing keeping the hobby alive for some of us, see constant, repetative attacks with fowl language and rude behavior, I can understand that it is difficult for them to bite there tongues, especially when a few posts contained misinformation. I am going to step up and take the blame for that because there are a few posts that I should not have permitted to remain. I am a bit more liberal in that regard sometimes. I have/had a tendency to allow some posts to remain present despite knowing exactly what would happen. For all of those who visited the threads in question expecting civil debate, I apologize.With that said, I also believe that the developers, and once again this isn't directed specifically at Ron or any of the folks at Eaglesoft, need to appreciate the fact that moderators are here to enforce the AVSIM terms of use, not there idea of what the terms should be. Some of the posts that have found themselves to the report block may have not sat well with the developer or member who reported it, but if it's within the terms of use I have no reason to delete it or warn the poster. Given what I have seen behind the scenes over the past few days, I believe that some devs and some members may be just a bit too sensitive at times. Once again, I completely understand why, but part of bringing civility back to the forums involves some compromise.So let's try this one more time and see if we can't all act like grown ups. I'm not going to tolerate a barrage of uneccesary, repetative fowl adjectives when referring to a product, and I likewise won't tolerate developers or any other members bringing an ill agenda into the forums. Let's call this an official moderator's warning for anyone who thinks they are going to get away without adhering to the terms of use and acting like they have some respect for those with varying points of view.

...and I'd like to add to what Jeremy said...try to step back and see the big picture.Simmers and developers need each other. Without developers we simmers would have nothing to sim and without simmers developers would not have a reason to develop.We need a healthy relationship with each other. Especially now when flight sim is in its most fragile state in almost 30 years....

I should probably know better than to post again on a sick day from work home with back meds. Mostly the forums are okay. It should come as no surprise that there are favored and disfavored devs. That's fine. That's why companies value their reputations and work hard to build good ones. The problem comes when you start putting the white hats and the black hats on people. There are very few products out there so flawed that someone isn't enjoying them, and even fewer companies that appear to be out to make a buck by swindling consumers. Yet how many times do we see "X is a crook!" "X stole my money!" "X's X is utter trash!" "X killed my pony when I was 9 years old!" Okay, maybe we're still waiting for the last one, but I'm sure it's coming.I learned in kindergarten not to make fun of another kid's toys. As an adult it is fine to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of a particular product. That helps make an informed buying decision. But I think it is just ungentlemanly (if one can still use such a sexist term without commiting a hate crime in some places) to just absolutely trash a dev or his products, in if only because one unavoidably implies "and those of you are enjoying it are deluded fools who have no right being out of an institution, much less posting in a public forum!"I appreciate posts that give particular weakensses and strengths of a product, e.g. "great frame rates, but the flangipod is modeled incorrectly for this airplane." Fine. Now I have information to base a decision on. If the flangipod is so tootin' important to me, then I can steer clear. If I could care less and am looking for something with good frames, then it's a different matter.One of the hardest things about being a reviewer is trying to figure out what everybody is interested in and make mention of it in a reasonably short review (and do so in a hopefully engaging way). I could care less about hardware controls, but they are important to some people. So I have to remember to say whether they are supported or not. I just submitted a Captain Sim 767 review that would have generated ten pages of comments in the old days. (If you don't believe me, look at some of the old review feedback.) I didn't even talk about 2D panels. I use the VC exclusively, and there are people who don't like VCs (much as I didn't like them, not so long ago) and might have appreciated a run-down of them. But you have to draw the line at some point. If that turns out to be a major complain in the review feedback, then I'll try to remember next time.In the end, every review is an expression of one person's opinion, as is stated therein. Sometimes a reviewer gets it wrong. I can tell you that if I get it wrong, it is after a ridiculous amount of testing, long-haul flights in real time, combing support forums and trying fixes. And if you point out something significant I missed (there is review feedback, after all, although granted it does not have the same impact as the featured review) I'll be happy to take it on board so I can become a better reviewer. Above all, I am not a real life airline pilot and those who fancy themselves close to one might consider becoming reviewers.Personally, I think reviews come with the territory for devs and among the things they need to develop is a thick skin. Try freelance writing if you want to see your baby kicked around in front of your eyes. "Thank you for submitting the novel you spent the last ten years of your life laboring over. It sucks." Or become a lawyer and deal with BS complaints to the attorney registration and discipline committee because some meth head went to prison for twenty years and so it must have been his lawyer's fault. There is a review feedback section, and devs can point out what they feel are the flaws in a review without resorting to name-calling.I don't know why people feel compelled to make negative -- still less angry -- posts in a hobby forum. Usually the justification is "I am just trying to save other consumers from the AGONY, AGONY, I tell you, of wasting their life savings on UTTER TRASH!!!" Methinks that takes everything a little too seriously, especially the poster. These are toys. If you can't afford to risk money on a toy that may or may not live up to your expections, you should be saving it for the egg money. Enjoy what you can enjoy and let others do the same.Honestly, the biggest wastes of money I have in my hanger are the products everyone raves about. Not because there is anything wrong with them, but because I ignored my own preferences due to the ecstatic forum buzz and wound up with something I just don't prefer to fly.The negativity makes this an unfun place to visit often. I am happy to see the mods ramp up their vigilence. It is a shame we can't police ourselves, but there you have it. I just don't bother to read comments by a dozen or so people because they seldom seem to have anything positive to say about anything, or have a particular ax to grind.Less drama. More airplanes.

Ok Ron-now I am getting it...As far as leadership it goes both ways-and the truth is usually in the middle....

This is a reply to the WHOLE topic...Me gads, I am so glad for the really astute, sensible, considerate and kind members of these forums... it was NOT the same in the past, but things move on... over MANY years, and quite rightly so, and to be expected, we are, in effect, in a learning and evolutionary environment....JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ ! guys, chill out... I was so downhearted to read this topic, it is so true, so common place ( to the MANY that have been around here since the year dot...)Has it REALLY come to THIS, ???.. bickering amonst oneselves for a stab at the flag ?--- not that, in the least, I think the OP as of that intent, far from it... it was a "from the heart" post. with much prior thought....Again, avsim has been brought down by hackers, but hey, we can live with that ???? SURELY !!!: ???fer gads sake guys, the object of terrorism, and hacking can be defined as such, is in fighting and internal defeat.. do you WANT to play into the hands of such ? I think not.....Pull yer freeking finger out... !!! look at the new opportunities, dont look behind, (Too much !) ...whats done is done, YES; there is gross ill feeling, only to be expected... live for tomorrow...lets try and build a NEW forum, without all this ill feeling and hatred, blame, disgust, and other non appropriate things..I have been away five years now, but I tell you this, and prey listen !...the mods here are the most astute set of people I have ever seen...so fer feks sake give them a chance... let them bring forth the pheonix from the ashes...the more you guys whinge, the more difficult it is, yes, you may perceive the right to whinge, but, in reality, you cant, cos, this is the new AVSIM.. the new way forward... and it cantbe altered.. its the way it is.. give the guys a great big deal of respect.... otherwsie, bugger off and go somewhere else while the real guys rebuild what is the best site around..NUFF SAID..rant off lolJoe...

Another forum I frequent includes an "ignore" button for members. If you don't like what someone has to say, or how he's saying it, you can add that person to your ignore list, and his posts simply won't show up when you visit the site.If Avsim already has this feature, it would be worth letting members know about it. If not, implementing an ignore feature would go a long way to solving the problems mentioned in this thread.

And there you have it. I've spent quite a lot of time hanging out at Avsim over the past few years, and have probably spent all of 10 seconds in the control panel.I imagine there are plenty of others who don't even know this feature is available to them. I also think a broader implementation of the ignore list would go a very long way to quell a lot of the bickering that goes on.Perhaps it would be worthwhile for the Avsim staff to send a group pm to remind/notify members that this feature exists?

There is a drop-down-box on the Member's name that contains a number of options......adding "Ignore this User" added to the list of options would be a nice touch... :(

I really don't think that there is any reason to despair. The longer I am here, the more convinced that things have always been this way and that there were really no "good old days". There have always been difficult, argumentative people in the fora - in fact, I just read the thread by Captain Slarty, good old Joe who was banned (rightly) and who now seems to have mellowed well. In the same thread, I was reminded of Simon, who often was perceived as a problem member (and he was), but who could be charming when treated well - once, he jumped on me and I simply thanked him for his interesting comments; that pretty much amicably terminated the encounter.

Thanks Luis :)Yes, I was outspoken on the past, I am seriously not trying to be, you r one of the great guys, I dont think ?? we ever had a bad word....Yes, I also miss Simon.. yes, like me !, he was outspoken, but hey, many , many years have gone by, water under the bridge et al.really great to chat again my friend. ! I will keep it short, cos I dont wanna do anything to upset the ballance lol...I need to learn to be myself...there are super people here, thats what we need to build upon.Joe.

Boy howdy, those are names from the past... little known trivia... I spent several months "lurking" on AVSIM before deciding to volunteer. I recall reading a lot of that soap opera. I think there are many things here on AVSIM that are much more refined than back in the day. One thing that seems to stand the test of time, though: we are most of us all in the dark as to if and when the next flight sim will come out! I think that was why I originally started reading AVSIM in the first place, I'd heard a rumour that Microsoft was going to stop making flight sims... that was back before FS8, I believe. It's kind of a strange hobby, flight sim is. On one hand, we have a lot of freedom to do what we want in the sim, and we can could on it to respond with a good deal of realism. On the other hand, though, the moment we want something more, we find we have to depend very heavily on outside resources. I think it's that introvert/extrovert dynamic that really pulls us apart, but it also binds us together. There we go, I finally get to use my psych degree on AVSIM, another New Year's Resolution checked off.Jeff Shyluk, BA!!!Senior Staff ReviewerAVSIM