Eaglesoft Citation v2.0 for FSX

[Guest Zenra]

I've anticipated the release of Eaglesoft's Cessna Citation X v2.0 for FSX for some time, both because I have enjoyed and been very impressed with other Eaglesoft products (Cirrus SR22X and Piper Twin Comanche), and because I really like the Citation X (I have and fly the Wilco / feelThere CX probably more than any other plane). So, it was a no surprise when my credit card came out as soon as I learned of the latest Eaglesoft release.[Disclaimer: I don't think I've ever written an aircraft review before, and this will not be extensive, but I feel compelled to share my initial thoughts regarding this plane so that others considering it might make an informed decision, just the way so many "first impressions" posts in these forums have helped guide my purchases of add-ons. I also hope that somebody will correct me if I report something not working but in reality I may just be doing something wrong.]First, the Good:- The flight model is first class; the plane is smooth as silk hand flying from takeoff to touchdown (flying several flights from KDEN to KSHR with varying weather)- The flight director and autoflight system works well, following either VOR/ALT ques or an FMS programmed flight plan precisely (flew several flights from EGCC to EGLL using different departure and arrival patterns - all worked as expected)- The systems all work realistically and gauges respond smoothly, with readings varying believably- Despite some of the comments in other threads concerning the VC and 2D cockpit textures, the MFD content and gauge faces are all very well done, crisp and easy to read (I am running at 1920x1200 32bit resolution).- Frame rates are very acceptable, even at high resolution and with most other FSX options med-high to high (e.g., traffic, weather, clouds and ground textures

[WarpD 824]

And reality steps in... the real aircraft will not allow you to define a procedure turn. Just wanted to clear that point up.Let me add this:From the NAV INDEX page 1FPL LIST - functionalWPT LIST - functionalDEPARTURE - functionalPOS SENSORS - functionalFPL SEL - functionalAFIS INDEX - impossible to implement because it's not something available to FSARRIVAL - functionalTUNE - functionalFrom the NAV INDEX page 2CONVERSION - functionalIDENT - functionalPOS INIT - functionalDATA LOAD - of zero value in FSPATTERNS - non-functionalMAINTENANCE - of zero value in FSCROSS PTS - non-functionalFLT SUM - functionalPlease... be accurate in your statements regarding what is or isn't... thank you. :)

[Guest Zenra]

And reality steps in... the real aircraft will not allow you to define a procedure turn. Just wanted to clear that point up.

Thanks for the clarification, Ed. The real airplane will execute holds on command, though, and has a weather radar, and the real FMS supports custom waypoints. Are there any plans to implement these features?

[WarpD 824]

Maybe, no... and not at this time.It is what it is... I've worked on it for four plus years and will never recoup the actual time invested.I can assure you... the aircraft is far better than you're giving it credit for.... in a great deal of aspects that you never touched on.

[JMEppright 2]

Real world FMS equipment packages approaches. Procedure turn is a part of the approach depending on the transition selected. One other feature is that when shooting a GPS approach if you try and modify the procedure in any way such as adding or deleting waypoints then the procedure will never activate. Without activation and an APP annumciation you get no VNAV and no scale reduction.Mike

The disappointments (at least for me):- The FMS is not as full featured as I had hoped; even the Wilco / feelThere CX has a more complete FMS. - Custom waypoints do not seem to be supported. You can enter the necessary keystrokes to the FMS to insert a custom waypoint in a flight plan, for example, and it takes you to a waypoint entry page, but it doesn

[N400QW 205]

Zenra, well balanced mini review.Just for your and others information we did not claim nor do we plan to provide a weather radar.Our view is that sim WR is already accomplished by users like yoursef who prefer their third party WR.Keyboard support is a near to medium term possibility.Custom Waypoints/Editable Waypoints are still a ways off and I will revise the site text for accuracy.Think in terms of procedures contained in SID/STAR/IAP plans as oposed to full custom waypoints on the fly and it will be a bit more satisfying.At any rate thanks for your fair and even handed first impressions.Custom/Editable waypoints not withstanding we think that after you've gotten to know her you will be quite pleased to find things you've not touched on yet. :(

Real world FMS equipment packages approaches. Procedure turn is a part of the approach depending on the transition selected. One other feature is that when shooting a GPS approach if you try and modify the procedure in any way such as adding or deleting waypoints then the procedure will never activate. Without activation and an APP annumciation you get no VNAV and no scale reduction.Mike

Correct Mike and good point about GPS approach. Many do not understand that the sim sees one and only plan at a time and sees an approach as a new plan.That means that the sim sees an ammended GPS approach as yet another new plan. :(

[Guest Zenra]

Ron,Thank you - that is exactly what I wished to know. I did buy the plane and I am indeed happy with it, as I am with the other ESDG products I've purchased. As I said in my mini review there are many things done very well. Any minor disapointments are my own opinions and stem from comparisons with other high-end add-on aircraft for FSX and not from anything ESDG said but did not do. I hope others find this thread informative and useful for the purpose stated in my original post.Overall, nice job and I wish you, Ed and the rest of the Eaglesoft team great success with this and other future projects.

[n4gix 4,947]

Any minor disapointments are my own opinions and stem from comparisons with other high-end add-on aircraft for FSX and not from anything ESDG said but did not do.

One thing to always keep in mind when comparing Product X with Product Y: are the things you consider pluses with Product X accurate, or are they features "added in because the programmer thought it should have been a feature of the Real LiftTM equipment?" :(

[WarpD 824]

FYI, it's a nice review... and I hope I didn't give the impression otherwise. :(

[N400QW 205]

Ron,Thank you - that is exactly what I wished to know. I did buy the plane and I am indeed happy with it, as I am with the other ESDG products I've purchased. As I said in my mini review there are many things done very well. Any minor disapointments are my own opinions and stem from comparisons with other high-end add-on aircraft for FSX and not from anything ESDG said but did not do. I hope others find this thread informative and useful for the purpose stated in my original post.Overall, nice job and I wish you, Ed and the rest of the Eaglesoft team great success with this and other future projects.

Thanks Zenra, we appreciate the even handed approach to the product comparison if you will.For fun, fly a few DME ARCS and Missed Approaches in both aircraft and perhaps you'll appreciate what you may not have yet touched on.The custom features you mention are probably a bit over the heads of average simmers and are reserved for more advanced clients like yourself.We have a slave driving real world CX 750 Pilot who insists on those as well.The real challenge is that we have one member shouldering that challenge and I'm not about to burn him out any further.That means that further implimention of those features will be at his and our leisure and time frame. If that is amenable to users fine, if not, that's fine as well.I don't think I can be any more honest or transparent than that. :(

[Guest Zenra]

I will definitely do as you suggest, Ron, and report. I know I've only had time scratch the surface and greatly look forward to discovering all of the functionality built into the ESDG Citation X v2.0. As mentioned in my original post, I flew several approaches into EGLL and every one worked great. I will definitely try some more complicated stuff, and expect to be very pleased. I am out of time tonight (wife wants to go to a movie - sure wish you guys could come up with a product that would engage her into flight sims as much as me, or at least distract her, or... I digress...) but will be back - probably with lots of questions, too :(

[Dirk98 354]

Thanks for the release and the mini review. Is there more / less / same FMS functionality in the FSX version compared to the FS9 version? What is different between the 2 versions functionality wise? Could you pls give a link to the comparison or list here what you think is important.Much thanks,Dirk.

[Guest nordicskies]

greets from norway.i am personally very disappointed with this release in many general areas of quality.The graphics in the cockpit are not up to present day standards, and has been said my the others, lack of FSX camera views, etc, makes this feel like a fs9 version.Haven't processed my flight 1 refund - purely because I have put the eagle citation sound file and .air file into the feelthere citation, and have the perfect plane! but at $49 wow that's an expensive sound and air file! i agree with the guy that said that although eagle soft made so much noise about this one and used words like 'extreme', it in fact gives nothing over the feelthere model of some years ago. and there is much laziness in not doing things like the fsx cameras. thats what fsx is about!sorry for some of my english!

[trisager 2]

there is much laziness in not doing things like the fsx cameras. thats what fsx is about!

In all fairness, I think this was just an oversight that is being corrected.

[N400QW 205]

greets from norway.i am personally very disappointed with this release in many general areas of quality.The graphics in the cockpit are not up to present day standards, and has been said my the others, lack of FSX camera views, etc, makes this feel like a fs9 version.Haven't processed my flight 1 refund - purely because I have put the eagle citation sound file and .air file into the feelthere citation, and have the perfect plane! but at $49 wow that's an expensive sound and air file! i agree with the guy that said that although eagle soft made so much noise about this one and used words like 'extreme', it in fact gives nothing over the feelthere model of some years ago. and there is much laziness in not doing things like the fsx cameras. thats what fsx is about!sorry for some of my english!

If you prefer the other that is fine with us. Feel free to exercise the refund option.The same challenge as before stands. For starters fly a few DME ARCs and Missed Approaches with both, make 'em difficult, then report back.Looks like we are going to need to do our own side by side comparison and include in some document so folks can learn more about the differences from a real world pilots perspective.Oh yes, I have the camera views on my desk and ready to include in an upload but I'm off to visit my brother in another city today.I'll upload the package upon my return. I do have a real life. :(

In all fairness, I think this was just an oversight that is being corrected.

You are correct. The funny part about it, we've had exactly two people request that the views be included.. :(

Thanks for the release and the mini review. Is there more / less / same FMS functionality in the FSX version compared to the FS9 version? What is different between the 2 versions functionality wise? Could you pls give a link to the comparison or list here what you think is important.Much thanks,Dirk.

There is no difference in fuctionality between our FS9 or FSX Avionics. Both deliver where it counts the most. :(