Hello everybody,I'm not sure where that topic belongs, but I'm almost certain that it is neither here nor that it can be helped anyway... Buying the PMDG 744 was the first step of mine to get a bit closer to the as-real-as-it-gets stage of FSX. In addition, signing up to Vatsim, updating my FMC and obtaining charts from Navigraph were even more important in that respect.But, here comes what I feel to be very, very disappointing and annoying:- the FSX internal data does not (at least in most cases) match the charts, be it parking positions, taxiways or even runways - one example could be EGSS (Stansted), which even with UK2000 Scenery has runways 5 and 23 instead of the charted 4 and 22. Gatwick parking positions and taxiways need Scenery installed, and approaching the one or other Turkey airport (took a couple of passengers on a holiday trip) you might find that the ILS is on a very, very different frequency, if any.With all the "proper" tools to run on Vatsim (servinfo, fsinn, navigraph open) during the flight, my FSX quit on me yesterday with a "sorry, not enough ressources available" message during my first Vatsim flight - on a quite modern I7 with 4 GB and GTX 250. How do you approach those things - it seems most people here get more fun out of it than I currently do: Do you get updated scenery in your FSX (and where from)? Is there a way to update the FSX airports with new nav data cycles as well? It does not make a lot of sense to me having the most recent charts if the "reality" isn't updated. Wouldn't it make much more sense to chart the default scenery, create FMC data and SID/Stars for that? Just my 2 cents, of course!Or do you have your favorite airports, where after each updated cycle you fly around and test whether the VORs and ILS are still where they are supposed to be?I'm terribly sorry to bother you with this, but maybe there is a solution out there somehow to get me set up properly. Any comments and suggestions would be highly welcome, apart from those issues I quite enjoy learning to fly in a realistic way. Kind regards,Stefan Kunstmann

Hello everybody,I'm not sure where that topic belongs, but I'm almost certain that it is neither here nor that it can be helped anyway... Buying the PMDG 744 was the first step of mine to get a bit closer to the as-real-as-it-gets stage of FSX. In addition, signing up to Vatsim, updating my FMC and obtaining charts from Navigraph were even more important in that respect.But, here comes what I feel to be very, very disappointing and annoying:- the FSX internal data does not (at least in most cases) match the charts, be it parking positions, taxiways or even runways - one example could be EGSS (Stansted), which even with UK2000 Scenery has runways 5 and 23 instead of the charted 4 and 22. Gatwick parking positions and taxiways need Scenery installed, and approaching the one or other Turkey airport (took a couple of passengers on a holiday trip) you might find that the ILS is on a very, very different frequency, if any.With all the "proper" tools to run on Vatsim (servinfo, fsinn, navigraph open) during the flight, my FSX quit on me yesterday with a "sorry, not enough ressources available" message during my first Vatsim flight - on a quite modern I7 with 4 GB and GTX 250. How do you approach those things - it seems most people here get more fun out of it than I currently do: Do you get updated scenery in your FSX (and where from)? Is there a way to update the FSX airports with new nav data cycles as well? It does not make a lot of sense to me having the most recent charts if the "reality" isn't updated. Wouldn't it make much more sense to chart the default scenery, create FMC data and SID/Stars for that? Just my 2 cents, of course!Or do you have your favorite airports, where after each updated cycle you fly around and test whether the VORs and ILS are still where they are supposed to be?I'm terribly sorry to bother you with this, but maybe there is a solution out there somehow to get me set up properly. Any comments and suggestions would be highly welcome, apart from those issues I quite enjoy learning to fly in a realistic way. Kind regards,Stefan Kunstmann

Hi Stefan, You say you have the charts from Navigraph, but do you have the FMC Data? That is probably the most important thing to get. It's all your FMC data and SID/Stars etc... It's uodated often and you'll see in the FMC (Any PMDG Plane) when it is out of date. Right Here!I listen to the IDENT, every landing and have yet to have one ILS incorrect. Addon airports can be modified, but if they are not showing the correct airports, it is normally the addon's issue. The FMC data and sid/starts are for the default scenery. I'm not sure I follow. As far as parking positions and taxiways, well with over 22,ooo airports I would think Microsoft wouldn't have release FSX yet if they were to accurately model them too, haha. FS9's aren't 100% either. Sorry you had what appears to be a very frustrating time, but I'm sure it's not nearly as bad as you think :)The low resources issue could be a lot of things. Do you get it just on Vatsim? How long ago did you take the FSX plunge exactly? How many addon's are you running? Settings etc... So many things contribute to issues in FSX, since it is in many ways, still waiting for hardware to catch up (When you add in max settings and addons like in FS9 that is ;-) I mostly fly in the USA and Europe, so can't say that I have landed at everyone, but in all my years of FSX flying I have only found minor FMC data discrepencies, and in some of those cases it was pointed out that what I thought was a problem was not. In fact one was because an ILS was bringing me down just left of the rwy, and it was shown that in the FMC data and in the real world, that it actually had an offset.Hope some of this helps.

If the navdata were based on default MSFS world, then we wouldn't be flying most of the RNAV SIDs and STARs that exist today, we wouldn't have new runways at KORD, KSEA, KMCO and many others. There haven't been many changes to the VOR structure yet, but NDBs are disappearing and there are new airways and a multitude of new and deleted fixes every cycle.IMHO, if you want the default world then you might want to stick to the default aircraft and use the default GPS.

If the navdata were based on default MSFS world, then we wouldn't be flying most of the RNAV SIDs and STARs that exist today, we wouldn't have new runways at KORD, KSEA, KMCO and many others. There haven't been many changes to the VOR structure yet, but NDBs are disappearing and there are new airways and a multitude of new and deleted fixes every cycle.IMHO, if you want the default world then you might want to stick to the default aircraft and use the default GPS.

Dan, so you add runways to MSFS? How does one do that? I fly in and around IAD a lot (both in real life and on the sim), and have just grown to accept that 1C on the FMC is IL on ground. I'm generally pretty happy the way things are running, so I'm not necessarily interested in ripping the files apart to update it, but if there's an easy patch I'm all ears. (Hello, MS, where are you....?) I do the Navigrath update from time to time, but didn't know you could lay down another runway.

Hi Dan and Dan (coincidence?),thanks for your replies. First of all, I didn't mean to be overly negative. I don't intend to use the default GPS and aircrafts, w/o the PMDG products it wouldn't be the same. But what I found annoying is that for nearly every airport I plan to visit I have to find, download, and, in most cases, pay additional scenery. Buying the 744 was peace of cake compared with the following investments. I do have an up-to-date FMS cycle (0912), I buy the airport maps I want to fly to - but when I'm there, I find that taxiways are not were they are supposed to be, that the ILS is on a different frequency and that a VOR is nowhere near the position it is supposed to be. Maybe I've been overly fortunate to find those flawy airports or routes, but when issuing a map of runway 04 and 22 for eg. EGSS, somebody should maybe mention that the MSFS world only knows about a runway 23 and 05. I hope I get the picture across? Must be a funny look from a Vatsim controllers point of view, seeing a heading down the runway on something like 232

It is a choice one has to make. Any developed airport, be it freeware or payware, is going to be the current snapshot. Stansted runway was recently changed to 04/22 because of the magnetic variation I believe, and is not longer aligned with 05/23. Of course, the new charts will reflect that, as will the recent and current AIRAC data.I am not suggesting that you are here, but we cannot expect every developer to update the scenery files everytime a taxiway is redesignated, or a part of the airfield is closed for redevelopment. Some developers may do so, if they have the time or have agreed to add it in (because the change occurred very shortly after release of the product...) but it is seldom. Sometimes, the changes will be incorporated into a new version of the scenery, should the developer do this in cycles. EDDF Mega Airport comes to mind here, with changes such as the Lufthansa A380 maintenance facility being added to the latest rendition. Changes to ILS frequencies can often be done yourself, by editing the appropriate AFCAD files... again EDDF Mega comes to mind here...I just wish there were a more easy way to update the nav database of the ground installation of FS... now that WOULD be a boost...I can sure understand your rant though... :(AndrewPS: With respect to listening to IDENT, he means, lsitening to the morse identification code for the navaid (ILS, NDB, or VOR)... at least that is what I think he means...

Regarding EGSS - Stansted extreme is the best way to go and I think there is a 'Free' lite version that you can test out. I still use the FS9 version that has the old runway markings and I dont have any issues on Vatsim. As long as my FMC and charts are up to date then there wont be a problem.Now when it comes to ILS freq changes thats another problem. for example, I flew into Frankfurt on Vatsim last week, the ILS for 25L/25R in the Aerosoft scenery is not the same now that the real airport has changed freq, I had the same problem flying into Dubai 30R last night. It's rare that it happens but you have a few options - Firstly, as stated above part of your approach checklist is to identify the ILS. eg Is EDDF 25L displaying IFSW on your PFD or audio? Is the freq 110.70? If the approach or tower is online (normally is at any major airport) check the ATIS or notes in FSINN or SB they will normally advise you of any recent freq changes.Your last option after you have shut down the sim is to download a program called AFCAD and update the ILS with the new freq for any airport. It's very easy to use. Finaly to give you an example of how things can go wrong. Last month I was in the PMDG MD11F flying from Memphis to a cargo hub near Mexico city (cant remember the name) Airport elevation was around 6000ft arrival weather was 1/4 visibility in Heavy rain, I set myself up for the ILS with all the correct charts but got nothing on the PFD despite the Radnav page displaying the correct Freq, I went missed and sat in a hold burning fuel trying to figure out why I couldn't get the damn ILS. In the end I diverted to Mexico on fumes after wasting time, troubleshooting the problem in bad weather for far to long. Anyway my point is in the real world nothing is perfect, you get false localizer captures, ILS interference or the whole thing breaks on you, so I dont mind these weird quirks in FS too much as it keeps you on your toes.RegardsRob

The EGSS runways only changed from 23/05 to 22/04 a few months ago (after the UK2000 Xtreme product was produced). It was however before the UK2000 VFR Airfields were produced and the 'lite' version of EGSS in that does have 22/04. The Xtreme version is slated for an update I believe sometime next year.Regarding other anomolies, these can change every single month and it would be impossible for every scenery designer to update his scenery with each monthly cycle. Stand numbers change, taxiway designators change (Heathrow is changing almost every day at the moment), VORs come and go and of course airways and waypoints change plus runway designaors change. It simply isn't possible to keep scenery in step with every change. It is however possible to keep your FMS in step with the current charts via the monthly AIRAC cycles as already mentioned and then compromise a little when on the gound. The Vatsim controllers are fully aware of the differences between scenery and the charts and will assist/accomodate where possible.

Many thanks for the comprehensive answer, Bill.Especially your last paragraph has given me new hope .. I can just remember listening in for the very first time on Vatsim, EGSS Gnd, hearing taxi instructions and comparing it to the aerodrome - and I had not a clue where I am! Now in Gatwick with the UK2000 Scenery (lite) I felt it a bit better - just the taxiway designators are hard to see, they're one-sided sometimes.Now there is only the performance topic left, but that's stuff for a different thread or even different board, my changes yesterday made it even worse - I assumed, FSX should run quite smoothly on an I7 920 @ 2.4 or 2.6 Ghz(?), 6GB and GTS 250... Anyway, another thread.Thanks a million to all of you guys, I'll have another go at it.Best regards,Stefan

I'm pleased that was of some help Stefan. A couple of tips for you - if you find that your scenery's taxiway signs don't match the current chart then (offline!) just taxi around your scenery and mark on your current chart what you scenery says they are, that way you'll have a conversion in front of you.Also when on Vatsim you will often find that another aircraft isn't followng the same line as you along a taxiway. They'll be on a different scenery to your own, don't worry about it, just follow your own line and try to stay in front or behind him as if he were on the same taxiway. Again the Vatsim controllers are aware that not all scenery has the taxiways in the exact same place and will accomodate you. The same goes with parking gates, you'll see some people "parked" in the terminals, this is again because they're on different scenery. The controllers are aware of it and they'll work with your relative positions. Rule One is make sure you have crash detection in FS turned OFF in case somone reverses out of a building and hits you! ATC do know where you all are, promise.You'll soon get used to it but if in any doubt put a note in the Remarks section of your Flight Plan stating which scenery you're using. It makes more of a difference at some airports than others but is especially useful when using EGBB Birmingham which has the most variance between different sceneries of any airport in the UK!

Another of those awesome responses, Bill. That certainly enlightened me a bit, and I will have another go. I hope I don't make a complete fool out of myself on my second try, the first one was pretty .. hm. Forgot to tell the controller my callsign every now and then, didn't tell ground which information I had and so on... I've actually used a post-it now to have my CC in front of me. Once I get around this performance thingy I'm happy to join you all again - and just to get it on-topic again: The PMDG 744 was the best investment, maybe apart from spending a couple of euros for FSUIPC.What would really be nice to see though is a sort-of youtube video, how the clearance/ground/tower screens of the controllers look like with some Vatsim traffic going on. You wouldn't happen to have some nice links somewhere? I'm just curious what they see when I start taxiing or holding/taking off.Thanks for all the help and encouragement, to all of you.Stefan

What would really be nice to see though is a sort-of youtube video, how the clearance/ground/tower screens of the controllers look like with some Vatsim traffic going on. You wouldn't happen to have some nice links somewhere? I'm just curious what they see when I start taxiing or holding/taking off.

Do some YouTube searches on Vatsim plus the airport ICAO code - "Vatsim EGLL" etc. You should find something. Altenatively search on Euroscope, ASRC or VRC which are the controller clients. There a zillions of Vatsim vids on there although mostly from the pilots perspective. Radar ones do exist though, just keep looking and being imaginitive with your search terms!

Hi Stefan,Sorry to have missed the question above. I thought I was emailed updates to this thread but I guess not.In respects to your question of how I listen to IDENT. Andrew is correct, I am listening to the morse code identifier. As stated by Rob, it is part of you approach checklist. To do this, just turn on your ident identifier (not sure the correct term at the moment) on your pedestal while nearing your approach as seen here.This will sound the audio for the morse code identifier when you get within range. Or at least it should. Every ILS frequency has one and can be found on your approach chart as seen here.This step has come in very useful a couple times, and only adds to the realism of the sim experience. If people do not do this step, I think they are really missing out at how much is being simulated. I have actually found other uses for this as well. Such as during approach and having to walk away from my comp and have used it as an alarm. When I hear it, I rush back, land, go about my business ;-)

Regarding IDENT:FS9 airports (and maybe FSX) have in default scenery the back course LLZ-ILS enabled. All of these in the FS default world are on full time. If the same frequency is shared at both ends of a runway (or adjacent parallels in rare instances) then until you are within about two degrees of centerline of the correct runway your raw nav instruments could be locked on to the incorrect one. If your FMA or ND does not read out the interpreted Morse code identification you need to use the audio to insure you are receiving the correct LLZ-ILS before engaging VOR-LOC or APP autopilot coupling. This should be a mandatory part of before landing checks.I use AFCAD for FS9 AF2 type files to insure the back courses are disabled where appropriate.In addition in certain pattern approaches you might see the incorrect ILS which could give you the incorrect situational awareness.I use the PMDG 737NG series and the FMA/PFD displays the IDENT when the LLZ is within reception distance and I always make a point of checking it.Approach charts show the IDENT in alpha character and Morse code formats. For US airports I use freeware FAA chart bundles available from flightaware.com. For non-US airports I frequently use VATSIM resources when available. Some r/w locations do have charts available such as the UK AIS.

Hi Dan and Ron,thanks for your answers. In the meantime, I'm no longer that dissappointed I was at the beginning... Re Idents: I use FS SP2 with the latest AIRAC cycles and updated charts from Navigraph, and that workes quite nice.I've now found other stuff I can be bothering about ;-)Thanks, and merry Christmas to you!Stefan