Do pilots of jetliners ever deploy spoilers prior to touching down? Sometimes when im on final in FSX with an airliner, and a little too high and fast, rather than abort, Ill deploy the spoilers for a few secs and bleed off airspeed and be able to salvage the approach. I can't recall seeing this while as a passenger in real life. I don't want to do it, if its not something that would happen in the real world. Sorry if this is a dum question, but Ive always wondered if Im doing something very wrong.Rob

Do pilots of jetliners ever deploy spoilers prior to touching down? Sometimes when im on final in FSX with an airliner, and a little too high and fast, rather than abort, Ill deploy the spoilers for a few secs and bleed off airspeed and be able to salvage the approach. I can't recall seeing this while as a passenger in real life. I don't want to do it, if its not something that would happen in the real world. Sorry if this is a dum question, but Ive always wondered if Im doing something very wrong.Rob

I am not a real pilot, so I'll just say this: Anything is possible.However, if you're coming in too high and too fast... This means exactly that. Your speed is too fast and you are above the three degree glide slope the PAPI (Precision Approach Path Indicator) lights are built on. If the airport in question has an ILS (Instrument Landing System), you would be advised to use this to help you set up the approach and speeds and then once on the Glide Slope, disengage the autopilot like pilots do in real life and hand-fly the final 1000FT, or so. You can use the FD (Flight Director) cross hairs as a guide.The other factor is the default jets in FSX are designed to be flown like giant GA (General Aviation) aircraft. This is the most unrealistic thing that ACES could have done, but they had to do this to keep the game accessible to people of ANY skill level. The irony is real jets have FMCs that help calculate the proper approach speed based on weight, winds, runway length and other factors. The FMC also helps with the flap deployment schedule that takes into account speeds, so there is no guess work like trying to fly the default jets. This is why no one who is serious about flight simming touches the default jets if possible.

The other factor is the default jets in FSX are designed to be flown like giant GA (General Aviation) aircraft. This is the most unrealistic thing that ACES could have done ... This is why no one who is serious about flight simming touches the default jets if possible.

I'm not sure I understand this criticism. I get that the consumer-level FSX did not include a jet with a functional Flight Management Computer. But, the game itself allows the installation of one, and many exist. Some are extremely detailed and accurate. I think seriuos simming in the jets can be a lot of fun, and also highly accurate.The consumer-level FSX does provide the information on the kneeboard required to properly deploy flaps on schedule with speed decreases. If you're coming in too high ... that's usually because you're coming in too fast. Check your kneeboard as part of your approach checklist. Look at the Vref speed (landing approach speed). Usually, there will be two numbers representing speeds at two different weight configurations ... if you stay near these numbers you can't go much wrong.You should never have to deploy an "airbrake" or spoiler on approach if you are properly managing your energy well early in your approach. Fly (mentally) well ahead of any jet aircraft.

You should never have to deploy an "airbrake" or spoiler on approach if you are properly managing your energy well early in your approach. Fly (mentally) well ahead of any jet aircraft.

I agree with Kevin. If you're using spoilers to reduce speed while flying the glide slope then you're going way too fast - reducing throttle to idle should be enough. I'm not a RW pilot but I am a frequent flyer and I've seen spoilers deployed after touchdown often enough to infer that spoilers must be armed at some point during the approach and deploy automatically when the aircraft makes contact with ground.

Rob,Funny you should ask. I asked a pilot friend of mine who flys for AA a similar question a while back. His response was basically that by the time they are on approach and the localizer has been captured, there should never be the need to deploy the spoilers. He also said that since the auto throttle is contolling the speed they are always well in control of the airspeed, especially by the time the glide slope is captured. He told me if for some reason something happened while on approach and they were for some reason to high or to fast they would go around rather than try to make a landing. Probably because they don't want to scare the passengers or risk an accident.He mentioned that in the 15 years that he's been flying for AA he has never deployed the spoilers while in flight because there has never been a need to.I didn't think to ask if there were any policies regarding using them.What he says does make sense though. I have been flying heavies in FS9 and FSX for almost 7 years now and I have never needed to use them on approach. As long as you monitor your speed and fly within restricitons (250 kts below 10000') and use the autothrottle you shouldn't get in a situation where you need them.I just got the Capt Sim 727 the other day and it doesn't have auto throttles to keep speed in check, so I need to manually manage the speed. However, even with no autothrottle as long as you stay at or below 250 kts below 10000' and fly the published approach you shouldn't need them. With enough practice you'll get it.

And if you take a few minutes to understand how an approach works ... the steps ... everything will come together.FSX air traffic controllers will bring you into an airport almost the exact same way every time.At some distance away (70-90 miles depending on your altitude and speed), they'll clear you to begin your descent and alert you which runway to expect. Most times the descent will be in steps. It is at this point that you should begin concerning yourself with energy management (speed). I reduce from cruise speed to 300 knots before beginning my initial descent. This prevents an over-speed condition. This is also the time to program the GPS procedure for the ILS approach (since you only now know which runway you'll be landing on).As you approach your initial altitude transition, ATC will clear you to an altitude below 10,000 feet (could be any altitude, but the key is that it will be below 10,000 feet). At that point, I reduce thrust to achieve 245 knots of airspeed on the descent, so that as I pass through 10,000 feet, I'm not concerned about exceeding the 250 knot speed restriction. At that point, I turn on the landing lights and make sure I've got the kneeboard open to the Reference page so that I have a quick way to scan the flap placard speeds so that I can extend my flaps as I'm slowing down all the way to full flaps.As you get closer to the airport, ATC will clear you to your final approach altitude (this will be about 2,000 feet above ground level). And, all the while, they have been vectoring you to a point that is perpendicular to your final runway. When I get this final approach clearance, I usually start managing speed by cutting thrust and extending flaps on schedule using the speeds indicated on the kneeboard. This is well early in my approach.As you near the final intersection, ATC will give you your final approach clearance - "You are 23 miles - turn right heading 020 and intercept the localizer. Climb and maintain 2,000 until you intercept the localizer."This will be your second-to-last turn. I usually try to manage my speed such that by the time I get to this point in my approach, I'm at all but the last notch of flaps and within 10 or 15 knots of my final approach speed. The reason is that I don't want to have to be monitoring speed at this point in my approach. At this point in my approach, my attention is going to be focused on intercepting the localizer - so I want speed to be a secondary concern that I've already dealt with long before I ever got to this part of the approach.You'll then intercept the localizer and turn on final toward your runway. As you straighten up and the autopilot begins tracking the runway ... drop the gear and put the flaps out that final notch. Now fine tune your speed to match your desired approach speed (Vref on your kneeboard).You want to be at final approach speed before you hit the outer marker and get your landing clearance. At the outer marker you'll begin focusing on the glide slope. As soon as it centers ... you'll gain some knots as the autopilot brings the nose down. At that point, I usually disconnect the autopilot and begin hand-flying the approach. If I'm edging high, I add maybe 10% of thrust for a few seconds to gain some speed. If I'm low, I'll reduce power a bit - being careful not to stall.On final ... you shouldn't be pointing the aircraft's nose in order to maintain the correct glide slope. Use power to do that. Cut if high ... add if low. Avoid the temptation to pull up the nose or drop the nose as that will wreck your speed profile.Always go around if things don't work out (such as a sudden wind profile that ruins your finely tuned approach).If you pay attention to the method of the approach and realize that it's the same every time, you will soon gain the experience to know when you're behind schedule and need to hurry things along ... and alternatively when you're ahead of schedule and can take things more slowly.Cheers,

No rule without exception though. At London City Airport, the extra steep approach makes some aircraft deploy their speed brakes (not lift dumpers, but speed brakes):

In addition to Kevin's nice document above, I believe as a result of this accident:-http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19700705-0there was a change made, initially by the Canadian ministry of Aviation, and applicable to all Canadian passenger-carrying, commercial aircraft that used spoilers - inhibiting their (spoiler) deployment if the flaps were in landing modes, and/or if the gear was down, but unloaded. This, I also believe, (and someone may correct me if I'm wrong) was adopted by all aircraft manufacturers, and this may have also been legislated in those countries where an aircraft manufacturing industry exists.

I am not a RW pilot butOn approach, no. Your speed should be in check before you intercept the glide slope. AT should be handling the speed and the spoilers and auto brake should be armed.In flight, however, I have seen them deploy spoilers on a number of occasions during descent - particularly on a 757 and I believe on a A320 as well. In fact, I can't think of a time when I have been on a 757 that they didn't use themI believe each aircraft is different regarding the use of spoilers in flight. Some you can, some you can't and some only in an emergency. Maybe different airlines have different procedures as well? This could account for the differing opinions. I think every flight I have taken on a 757 in the last 10 years has been with NWA.The QW757 actually included the rumble that the spoilers produce in flight and the sound is very accurate.I use them regularly on descent in FS. If you use the default atc, you have to descend at about 1800-2300 FPM to end up at the right place and time to intercept the glide slope. If you try 1500 FPM, you may end up too high depending on the runway they give you. Many aircraft in FS are difficult to slow down at idle thrust with a 2000 FPM descent while trying to stay at 250 kts under FL100 and spoilers are the only option.

I am not a RW pilot butOn approach, no. Your speed should be in check before you intercept the glide slope. AT should be handling the speed and the spoilers and auto brake should be armed.In flight, however, I have seen them deploy spoilers on a number of occasions during descent - particularly on a 757 and I believe on a A320 as well. In fact, I can't think of a time when I have been on a 757 that they didn't use themI believe each aircraft is different regarding the use of spoilers in flight. Some you can, some you can't and some only in an emergency. Maybe different airlines have different procedures as well? This could account for the differing opinions. I think every flight I have taken on a 757 in the last 10 years has been with NWA.The QW757 actually included the rumble that the spoilers produce in flight and the sound is very accurate.I use them regularly on descent in FS. If you use the default atc, you have to descend at about 1800-2300 FPM to end up at the right place and time to intercept the glide slope. If you try 1500 FPM, you may end up too high depending on the runway they give you. Many aircraft in FS are difficult to slow down at idle thrust with a 2000 FPM descent while trying to stay at 250 kts under FL100 and spoilers are the only option.

I flew yesterday from Chicago O'Hare to Altanta and then back yesterday (long day) to visit a client. Both legs were on the AA Super 80, and I sat over the wing on both legs. On both the desent into KATL and then back to KORD the spoliers were deployed for a signficant period of time. I don't recall however if the spoilers were deployed once the flaps were full with gear down (I would imagine not). Although I am a real world pilot, I only fly the little planes so I can't speak for what is protocol. I would imagine though that it would be a bit risky to have full flaps and spoilers on final in a commercial jet. I will admit though that in FSX i have done this from time to time since I got lazy and just needed to slow the plane down. I guess that's the beauty of flight simming; you can do almost anything as long as it makes you happy and it works!Cheers!

FSXMissionGuy:The default jets in FSX... When compared to real world jets and advanced payware... Are highly unrealistic in terms of performance specs, handling, speeds and other characteristics and they force pilots to fly them like giant GA aircraft instead of how complex commercial airliners would be flown in real life.For example...When descending, they use V/S (Vertical speed) the pilot has to manage. In the real world, the autopilot and FMC/FMGC uses VNAV Path, or VNAV SPD to maintain the correct, calculated descent path to hit all the way point altitudes and restrictions. In fact, some airliners use a combination of the two while on descent. The default jets do not offer this option because there is no FMC. Also, the autopilot and subsequent freeware FMCs e.g. Garrett Smith's FMC, are designed for smaller, GA aircraft. Hence, why they use V/S and not a true descent profile.Also, all one has to do is look at the default A321. It is the most unrealistic "jet" there is in the FSX hangar, let alone it does not mimic a real airbus at all.The biggest thing that bothers me about the default jets is flying them is all guesswork. The kneeboard is based on averages and the general 250/10000FT rule. In the real world, everything is calculated and cross-checked to be as accurate as possible because of the risk and safety factors involved. Again, the default jets don't require any of this because this is not who they are aimed at. The default jets are aimed at the casual simmer, or gamer. I'm sorry if this sounds elitist, but FSX... More than previous version of MSFS... Tried valiantly to get more of the mainstream gaming audience by adding the mission component... And failed miserably. MSFS has always had mediocre default jets, but coupled with the missions they give a false sense of how commercial airliners are operated from both a procedural point of view (what procedures?!) and a performance perspective (all guesswork; takeoff and approach speeds).

In general, the use of spoilers is discouraged at any phase of flight. Simple matter is they hurt fuel efficiency and affect an airlines bottom line. However, there are obviously cases when they're used and I think the key is to distinguish when on approach they are used. Most SOP's I have knowledge of in the real world have no regulations against using them in a clean configuration prior to the FAF. Similarly, most strongly discourage but will still allow they're use with flaps 1 and sometimes flaps 5 on the Boeings (Flaps 1 and 1+F one the Scarebusses) if you're before the FAF. The consensus is that spoilers absolutely are not to be used if greater than flaps 5 or past the FAF. If the situation would require them, a missed approach should be flown instead. Realize that some aircraft in the real world don't even have spoilers that can be deployed anywhere other than on the ground. I'm thinking specifically of the JS41 in this case, which on a steep approach can be very difficult to control speedwise.The key is to plan ahead. You need to know you're aircraft and the approach. There's a famous aviation axion alluded to earlier in this thread that says never let your aircraft get somewhere you mind hasn't been five minutes earlier. Normally if you're fast bringing the throttles to flight idle will solve the trick (remember, engine N1 below flight idle is normally an indicationt to fly missed itself). However, is some aircraft such as the geared turboprops on the aforementioned JS41 can be very difficult to slow down. No add in a 10 degree approach profile like that at Aspen and speed management is very challenging and is where you need to know you're approach. Using Aspen LOC/DME approach as an example I know two specific things about the approach. I know that if I have a visual on the runway early I can descend very fast early on reaching Vtgt+30-40 kts and then level off in to a normal profile and be back on speed by 2-3 NM out. I also know that I can not maintain speed and profile and land at the correct speed--on a 7,000' strip this means I can not land and if my visibility is less than 5-7 NM I need ot use my alternate. However, if I am flying an ERJ I know I can hold speed well at flight idle, but I am limited by aircraft category and the turn required for a go-around--so I can maintain speed and profile but will have low tolerances on the missed approach if I go all the way to minimums. In both aircraft, you need to be in or near landing configuration passing Red Table, almost 13 NM out...almost twice the distanceyou would on a normal approach. A standard 3 degree ILS does simplify all of this quite a bit.Reiterating my point, you need to know both your aircraft and your approach and you need to plan ahead.

Also...Contrary to popular belief... Spoilers make you descend FASTER because they are stalling the airflow above the wing. Less airflow above = less lift. Hence, the plane will descend faster. Spoilers are most often deployed to maintain current air speed on descent, and to speed up the descent if it looks like the plane needs to be at a certain altitude at a certain way point.Again, I am not a real world pilot. But this is the information I have gathered from real world pilots who fly the heavies.

Also...Contrary to popular belief... Spoilers make you descend FASTER because they are stalling the airflow above the wing. Less airflow above = less lift. Hence, the plane will descend faster. Spoilers are most often deployed to maintain current air speed on descent, and to speed up the descent if it looks like the plane needs to be at a certain altitude at a certain way point.Again, I am not a real world pilot. But this is the information I have gathered from real world pilots who fly the heavies.

That is absolutely correct, but by proxy they also help you slow down. Since you are descending at a faster rate, you can increase your nose attitude which should give you a reduction in speed. Of course, most default FS aircraft have overdone this effect and neglected the decreased lift side.A good example I think is people's common misconception that spoilers are deployed on touchdown to slow the aircraft (I believe being reasoned on a increased drag/speedbrake argument). While there is a very small effect on this order, the real reason they are deployed on touchdown is to spoil (hence the name spoiler) lift over the wing. This has the effect of dropping the aircraft's weight on to it's wheels so the hydraulic wheel brakes are much more effective. Any direct decrease in airspeed they cause is negligeable at best.

That is absolutely correct, but by proxy they also help you slow down. Since you are descending at a faster rate, you can increase your nose attitude which should give you a reduction in speed. Of course, most default FS aircraft have overdone this effect and neglected the decreased lift side.A good example I think is people's common misconception that spoilers are deployed on touchdown to slow the aircraft (I believe being reasoned on a increased drag/speedbrake argument). While there is a very small effect on this order, the real reason they are deployed on touchdown is to spoil (hence the name spoiler) lift over the wing. This has the effect of dropping the aircraft's weight on to it's wheels so the hydraulic wheel brakes are much more effective. Any direct decrease in airspeed they cause is negligeable at best.

The other misconception is that reversers reverse the flow of thrust to stop the aircraft.Reversers are basically engine cowls that open and allow the air (thrust) to dissipate instead of being funneled backwards toward the second (N2) fan. Thus, no thrust = no forward, or slowed momentum.The same is true of reverse buckets. They are diverting the flow of air, so it doesn't get concentrated out the back and maintain thrust / forward inertia.