No miswording or misrepresentation here. I did not say that the installer was broken.

You said:

AFAIK, the installer hasn't been fixed yet

Only something broken needs fixed. :(

The crux of the matter is that we understand the desire for quality VC's, we just don't understand the "obsession" over them.

Ron lol but that could be said also about the exterior or 3d cabin or 3d personmodeled what is the same waist regarding the system simulations experience :-)But it can add to the total immersion factor which a user can experience and that is also per simmer different although most of us spent most of the time in the cockpit ;-)But it looks a great product maybe when I have the time to check it out :-)Cheers,Andr

Product Support Forums have answers. That's why we have them and that's why we refer folks to them.Bob, I answered this in our forum days ago in response to your post. The fix is noted in the forum and the installer issue is a WIP. Sheesh :(No amount of impatience on your or others part will change the facts. A WIP is in fact a WIP. Period.

I'm not sure why you think I'm being "impatient."I'd just like to see the existence of known issues pushed to the customer at install time, rather than making the customer come hunting for a solution. That can be done with documentation in the installer, or better still, a step at the end of the install process that opens a link to a web page on your site with a currently maintained list of known issues and their solutions, current versions/updates etc. It's a fairly common software industry practice, and it'd save a lot of people from wasting time on a problem that we already know how to fix. Most people having the problem will tend to fiddle with the .ini file, maybe start-restart FS a few times etc, before they conclude it's not working as advertised and go looking for more info. You could save them that trouble and wasted time by bringing it to their attention right when they install the product.I see that you folks have already answered this question at least three times...apparently finding that info in the product support forums isn't as intuitive or easy for your customers as you might think. Fact is, I just chanced across it myself.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

I'm not sure why you think I'm being "impatient."I'd just like to see the existence of known issues pushed to the customer at install time, rather than making the customer come hunting for a solution. That can be done with documentation in the installer, or better still, a step at the end of the install process that opens a link to a web page on your site with a currently maintained list of known issues and their solutions, current versions/updates etc. It's a fairly common software industry practice, and it'd save a lot of people from wasting time on a problem that we already know how to fix. Most people having the problem will tend to fiddle with the .ini file, maybe start-restart FS a few times etc, before they conclude it's not working as advertised and go looking for more info. You could save them that trouble and wasted time by bringing it to their attention right when they install the product.I see that you folks have already answered this question at least three times...apparently finding that info in the product support forums isn't as intuitive or easy for your customers as you might think. Fact is, I just chanced across it myself.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

We added keyboard support for many of the knobs and switches... people still discuss using FSUIPC macros. The reason: people don't read, nor do they search.If people did read, support forums would have little purpose.What most want is to just come to the forums and ask how to do something that's already covered in the documentation.

I'm not sure why you think I'm being "impatient."I'd just like to see the existence of known issues pushed to the customer at install time, rather than making the customer come hunting for a solution. That can be done with documentation in the installer, or better still, a step at the end of the install process that opens a link to a web page on your site with a currently maintained list of known issues and their solutions, current versions/updates etc. It's a fairly common software industry practice, and it'd save a lot of people from wasting time on a problem that we already know how to fix. Most people having the problem will tend to fiddle with the .ini file, maybe start-restart FS a few times etc, before they conclude it's not working as advertised and go looking for more info. You could save them that trouble and wasted time by bringing it to their attention right when they install the product.I see that you folks have already answered this question at least three times...apparently finding that info in the product support forums isn't as intuitive or easy for your customers as you might think. Fact is, I just chanced across it myself.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

Bob, what you would like to see and what can be implimented on limited schedules and timely manners often differ. That is why I've noted the impatience.We really don't need a lecture on what to do, just the time to do it...right now I'm off topic on another family and project issue.Consider that we've addressed every known issue with this package over the last two years. While it may not have satisfied some regarding timeliness it did get done.The same policy is still in place and all will be resolved in due time. Until then, all will have to practice patience. :(

Ron lol but that could be said also about the exterior or 3d cabin or 3d personmodeled what is the same waist regarding the system simulations experience :-)But it can add to the total immersion factor which a user can experience and that is also per simmer different although most of us spent most of the time in the cockpit ;-)But it looks a great product maybe when I have the time to check it out :-)Cheers,Andr

Is there anywhere I can view the manual that comes with the plane without purchasing it?Can't seem to find it.

Andre and others, please do not misunderstand. We are fully aware of users desire for well implimented VC's and the various benefits as touted.We simply do not understand the obsession with VC's as they are only one part of what makes an entire package desirable. :(

Ron- to be honest I noticed nothing wrong with the Vc myself.But that is probably because I am "obsessed" with instruments that work as closely to their real world counterparts-looks come second. If I have an obsession-it is still complaining about prop sounds -which are still not really right in any complex prop plane that I have bought or experienced in fs yet! Doesn't seem to bother too many others (except a certain other mod with a Baron)-but I am for sure "obsessed" and waiting for that.Obsession--I'd call it one's area of interest.- I agree the nicer visually a vc looks the more inclined I am to use it. One of the reasons I never used vc's in fs9 was because of the general hasbro looks and unsharpness of zooming into instruments-that has changed greatly in fsx, and now I am a tracker ir vc user where as in fs9 I swore I would never be and was a dedicated 2d panel user.I just posted some shots of photoreal scenery that is done to 2 foot resolution in the screen shot forum. A few comments were that the color correction was not correct and too blue. I had never noticed because I am more "obsessed" by seeing reality than I am color of reality! :lolIn any case, I am very glad you listen to your customers and respond-that is the best kind of support one can get.When you make the changes I will probably notice-yeah-that looks even better. But I also certainly understand for some the look of the vc can be a make or break situation. Immersion on a flat screen comes in many colors! I don't think it is about obsession-I think it is about what creates that special "immersion" for the individual.

Is there anywhere I can view the manual that comes with the plane without purchasing it?Can't seem to find it.

There isn't "a" manual. There are fourteen PDF documents that come with the CX. They are not available except via the downloaded installer package.

Yeah, Geofa... I agree. I bet that TrackIR is nice. I am thinking about getting one of those at some point. I've been away from flight simming for a few months because of work, Xbox, etc. I was interested in the Cit X and the J41 PMDG. I haven't made up my mind yet which one I'm gonna get first.I watched a video on the TrackIR last night and I was really impressed. I bet it does change everything in a VC cockpit. I've always liked FSX VC, but had a hard time switching around, especially in certain planes.Do you have TrackIR 4, or 5? Is it easy to set up before each flight session?Thanks,Cory

Yeah, Geofa... I agree. I bet that TrackIR is nice. I am thinking about getting one of those at some point. I've been away from flight simming for a few months because of work, Xbox, etc. I was interested in the Cit X and the J41 PMDG. I haven't made up my mind yet which one I'm gonna get first.I watched a video on the TrackIR last night and I was really impressed. I bet it does change everything in a VC cockpit. I've always liked FSX VC, but had a hard time switching around, especially in certain planes.Do you have TrackIR 4, or 5? Is it easy to set up before each flight session?Thanks,Cory

I have 4-but there is nothing to it. Turn it on-hit f12 to center and you are on your way...

There isn't "a" manual. There are fourteen PDF documents that come with the CX. They are not available except via the downloaded installer package.

I was just wanting to flip through them to see what the plane looked like, a chance to check out all the bells and whistles. You know, window shopping. The few videos on youtube were helpful. I like the ones with the FMS tutorials. Pretty cool.One thing I hated about the Wilco Citation from a few years ago was that it's manual sucked! Left you hanging on the FMS. From the videos, the FMS looked familiar, but seemed to have a few more additions that I didn't remember from the Wilco one.In one video the narrator talked about mouse clicking a screw on the dash for takeoff config. I think. I was wondering what that was about which I'm sure the manual(s) explains.Thanks for the prompt replies.Cory

I have 4-but there is nothing to it. Turn it on-hit f12 to center and you are on your way...

Cool, quick and easy. :(

Ron- to be honest I noticed nothing wrong with the Vc myself.But that is probably because I am "obsessed" with instruments that work as closely to their real world counterparts-looks come second. If I have an obsession-it is still complaining about prop sounds -which are still not really right in any complex prop plane that I have bought or experienced in fs yet! Doesn't seem to bother too many others (except a certain other mod with a Baron)-but I am for sure "obsessed" and waiting for that.Obsession--I'd call it one's area of interest.- I agree the nicer visually a vc looks the more inclined I am to use it. One of the reasons I never used vc's in fs9 was because of the general hasbro looks and unsharpness of zooming into instruments-that has changed greatly in fsx, and now I am a tracker ir vc user where as in fs9 I swore I would never be and was a dedicated 2d panel user.I just posted some shots of photoreal scenery that is done to 2 foot resolution in the screen shot forum. A few comments were that the color correction was not correct and too blue. I had never noticed because I am more "obsessed" by seeing reality than I am color of reality! :lolIn any case, I am very glad you listen to your customers and respond-that is the best kind of support one can get.When you make the changes I will probably notice-yeah-that looks even better. But I also certainly understand for some the look of the vc can be a make or break situation. Immersion on a flat screen comes in many colors! I don't think it is about obsession-I think it is about what creates that special "immersion" for the individual.

Ha Ha, we have to admit to obsession over systems and avionics ourselves. As we mentioned, we are fully and completely aware of what users want and consider to be todays standard for VC's and our goals have been and are to improve that area, not only on this project but newer ones as well.We still feel that users these days are over emphasizing VC's to the detrimate of the rest of given project be it ours or someone elses.Many devs that we speak to would not build VC's at all were it not an integral part of what MS provided long ago.Nevertheless, we will do them and improve them as we proceed. It would be nice to go a day or to without hearing about them though. :(

There isn't "a" manual. There are fourteen PDF documents that come with the CX. They are not available except via the downloaded installer package.

What Bill said... :( There is a 30 Day refund policy in place so it's a no risk choice to own, fly, and peruse, the documents. :(

Ha Ha, we have to admit to obsession over systems and avionics ourselves. As we mentioned, we are fully and completely aware of what users want and consider to be todays standard for VC's and our goals have been and are to improve that area, not only on this project but newer ones as well.We still feel that users these days are over emphasizing VC's to the detrimate of the rest of given project be it ours or someone elses.Many devs that we speak to would not build VC's at all were it not an integral part of what MS provided long ago.Nevertheless, we will do them and improve them as we proceed. It would be nice to go a day or to without hearing about them though. :(

:(

Guys, The Eaglesoft Citation X is quite a good aircraft, more details will come in the review but to give you an idea of how good it is, I just can't seem to stop flying it. Everyday you can find something new, as for the VC, I think Eaglesoft has something in the works that will make everyone happy, please check out their forums. :( ...

I had the original FS9 version and liked it alot. I hope to purchase this latest rendition soon but was wondering what is it's relative impact on FPS or better yet does this bird offer a smooth flight experience (great landing feel at a low traffic airport)? If it is not out-of-bounds for a forum question, how would it compare to the F1 Mustang in the 'smoothness' area. I own the plane but don't fly it as the fun factor is diminished due to a lack of smoothness. I'm sure that this is all subjective because of different system configurations but I do have a quick (4.2ghz) system with a high-end GPU.BTW, I had breakfast at Wisconsin Air today (KMSN) and a Citation x was on the tarmac. Wow- I didn't realize how big that bird is!jja