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Jayjay

Please help, especially if english is your native language

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I am looking for some help for the following:Today I applied for membership to the FSD support forum. The registration page asks you to tell why you apply. The reason I gave was that I was applying as a customer having purchased the Cessna 337, Pilatus Porter, Cheyenne and Cirrus. Today I received the following message from FSD "Hello, jjstruyf!We regret to inform you that your membership application has been reviewed and rejected by Steve FSD from the FlightSim Developers Forum administration.The following reason was given by Steve FSD:Rejected due non-compliance with clear and unambiguous Forum registration requirements. If you feel this is all a big mistake, you are of course free to apply for membership again using different credentials for review.Regards,The FlightSim Developers Forum team"As english is not my native language, I am wondering if anyone of you that have successfully applied to FSD's forum could help me understand what I did wrong in my application. I do not understand what are those "clear and unambiguous Forum registration requirements" they are talking about. As a long time customer of FSD I just wanted to look for some support regarding a little problem I have with their Cirrus and as a result I get rejected. But I am allowed to have another try, using different credentials. Again, english is not my native language but what does that mean? I searched the internet for "credentials" and found the following "attestation, authorization, card, certificate, deed, diploma, letter of recommendation, diploma etc..." <edited out by mod> should I send them a proof of purchase of their product? If any one could give me some light, I would very very much appreciate.And finally, you know folks, at the age of 71, seeing that lack of tolerance, segregation, "you are not part of our world, so bye bye" attitude is becoming more and more important in our world, I am finally happy that statistically I do not have that many years to go any more...Thanks in advance for any help you coud give me.Jean-Jacques

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Got exactly the same response today. To be honest, it annoyed me so much that I've decided never, ever to buy anything from them again.A courteous response could have included the reason for the rejection. Says a lot about their attitude towards customers that they cannot be bothered.

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hello! i don't see what's wrong with your english, even if i'm not a native speaker too.but that can't be a barrage to join a forum, i mean you surely didn't use slang/foul language, nor wrong grammar i believe.maybe it's about they don't want to support you. you maybe think about the issue way too far/too much.or it's only a forum for developers? what should they want with end-users without the computer technical experience? i don't really know.and i wouldn't care, you had a look at the forum? it's quite empty running since about estimated 3 months. it might be setup, that not everybody can read everything yes... but if general forums are that empty, the main stuff doesn't have more traffic.you could write the administrator the same you posted here.

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You must register with your real name. That requirement is in the User Agreement that you have to agree to while registering...this is copied from it."PLEASE NOTE: Your complete FIRST and LAST names are required to register. Registrations with just a first name or a nickname will be rejected."

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You must register with your real name. That requirement is in the User Agreement that you have to agree to while registering...this is copied from it."PLEASE NOTE: Your complete FIRST and LAST names are required to register. Registrations with just a first name or a nickname will be rejected."
true! overlooked that. was a bit fast...they were right with "Rejected due non-compliance with clear and unambiguous Forum registration requirements."well, "jjstruyf" may be ok for user ID, but at "Choose display name" they want your real name. then it should be "clear and umambiguous". no worries!

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Bonjour JayJay.I used to live not far from you in Masnuy St Jean, near Mons. I miss my Chimay and Leffe Blonde!I had the same problem with FSD very long ago. I had problems getting into their forum after buying a product, and they were so abrupt and rude that I got my money back and never have looked at them or their products again since. One would hope they would change their ways, but alas, no.La nature d'un chien est d'

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Thanks for the heads up about these guys. I will certainly stay away from FSD and warn everyone else I know. I am too spoiled by good developers to put up with that kind of rude nonsense.Stephen

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You must register with your real name. That requirement is in the User Agreement that you have to agree to while registering...this is copied from it."PLEASE NOTE: Your complete FIRST and LAST names are required to register. Registrations with just a first name or a nickname will be rejected."
Yes, I did overlook that! But their application form is not very clear: it says "choose displayed name". This to me, unless because of language barrier there is something I do not get here, means that I can choose which name will appear when I am logged-in. So if they want us to register under our real name, why not put a first name and familly name box on their form (like most of forums do on their registration form)?Also, I thought I had a feeling for the word "credentials", but to make sure I searched the internet for the meaning of it and found the definitions according to the Collins dictionary. So I thought "gee, maybe they want me to send a copy of my ID papers or they want a written attest that I am a good guy"Crazy world, where as a customer you are less and less welcomed. If my application was indeed reviewed by Steve FSD I could have been advised of it's rejection through a more courteous message. But luckily, the final answer is still in the hands of the customer as I can elect not to buy from FSD any more. A couple of weeks ago I thought of purchasing their P38. Im am glad I didn't.Jean-Jacques Struyf

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Bonjour JayJay.I used to live not far from you in Masnuy St Jean, near Mons. I miss my Chimay and Leffe Blonde!I had the same problem with FSD very long ago. I had problems getting into their forum after buying a product, and they were so abrupt and rude that I got my money back and never have looked at them or their products again since. One would hope they would change their ways, but alas, no.La nature d'un chien est d'

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One would have thought that, having applied such stringent measures to customers just getting support for the product they own, they might have had the presence of mind to publish those restrictions in more than just jargonese. English, French, German and Spanish would cover most eventualities I would have thought.By the way, it's not YOUR language skills that need invigorating, it's theirs. The legal claptrap that purports to be an End User Licence Agreement is actually not worth the paper it's not printed on. Why they feel the need to be so `clever` rather than adopt the simple measure of asking for a customer number in the forum application is totally beyond me. After all, the only people who suffer are the genuine, legitimate customers. Once again, the attitude seems intent on excluding rather than including which is desperately stupid from a customer service and business growth standpoint. But it does mean that there's very little dissent in their forums... which may be the only intention as their products are hardly problem-free!

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Interesting commentary here, both from the native English speakers and those who write so much better than most of us even though they are using a second (third?) language. I purchased a product from FSD a couple of years ago, got the same juvenile claptrap and run around when it came to an installation problem--the only one with any of the many payware models I've purchased. I dumped the product and have never looked back. My dollars go elsewhere. Too bad, FSD.

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On the Milviz site, if you try and make a username like jjtsutsety, or something that's not making a lot of sense, you will not get in. There's a valid reason for this. There's a ton of spammers who try to get into sites like ours merely to mess things up with ads for pron, viagra and other stuff that none of us want. They have a tendancy to use names just like that. So I hardly think that attacking FSD for protecting it's forums is a good thing. Hardly.I won't/can't comment on FSD's customer support except to say that all of the recent releases by them have been supported to the fullest by FSD and by Milviz. And btw, being able to get your money back shows very good support if you ask me... IMHO.kc

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Of course - a commercial members reaction!What are they doing here anyway???

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Of course - a commercial members reaction!What are they doing here anyway???
Hello Probably because it is an Open forum, always good to have input from the commercial devs.

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And btw, being able to get your money back shows very good support if you ask me... IMHO.
The purchase that I made yesterday - my first and last from FSD - was clearly marked as final and non-refundable.Protecting against spammers is one thing, being rude is something different.

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The purchase that I made yesterday - my first and last from FSD - was clearly marked as final and non-refundable.Protecting against spammers is one thing, being rude is something different.
Our apologies if we were being rude. We were simply trying to protect ourselves from spammers, which is a legitimate concern to anyone running a forum. Most forums these days, including this one, require complete information when registering. However, we don't want to seem unreasonable and are looking into an easier way to implement the registration process.Tim Dickens

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Our apologies if we were being rude. We were simply trying to protect ourselves from spammers, which is a legitimate concern to anyone running a forum. Most forums these days, including this one, require complete information when registering. However, we don't want to seem unreasonable and are looking into an easier way to implement the registration process.
Hey, fair enough, and thanks for responding. If the problem with my registration (and the OP's, presumably) was indeed that the display name should be my real name, it would be very helpful to point that out when sending the rejection. "Rejected due non-compliance with clear and unambiguous Forum registration requirements." wasn't helpful, and frankly felt like a slap in the face. I may not be the brightest guy on the planet, but I don't believe that I'm the dumbest, either, and that requirement wasn't clear to me.

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Our apologies if we were being rude. We were simply trying to protect ourselves from spammers, which is a legitimate concern to anyone running a forum. Most forums these days, including this one, require complete information when registering. However, we don't want to seem unreasonable and are looking into an easier way to implement the registration process.Tim Dickens
I can't even begin to explain how true that is. I hope there's a special place in hell reserved for spammers.

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Our apologies if we were being rude. We were simply trying to protect ourselves from spammers, which is a legitimate concern to anyone running a forum. Most forums these days, including this one, require complete information when registering. However, we don't want to seem unreasonable and are looking into an easier way to implement the registration process.Tim Dickens
It is really a pity that by using my initials and first name (jjstruyf) and thus not hiding myself behind some word and numbers aggregation, I am being categorized as a possible spammer. On most fora's where I participate I am using the same login name jjstruyf. Avsim is The exception. I subscribed to Avsim in it's early stages (don't remember exactly when-think it was around 1997-1998) and I used the nickname my american colleagues used to call me (the first one I was introduced to in 1973 was a texan and for him trying to pronounce Jean-Jacques correctly turned out to be a real torture, so he asked me "do you mind if I call you Jayjay?" and that remained so forever...Jean-Jacques

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It is really a pity that by using my initials and first name (jjstruyf) and thus not hiding myself behind some word and numbers aggregation, I am being categorized as a possible spammer. On most fora's where I participate I am using the same login name jjstruyf. Avsim is The exception. I subscribed to Avsim in it's early stages (don't remember exactly when-think it was around 1997-1998) and I used the nickname my american colleagues used to call me (the first one I was introduced to in 1973 was a texan and for him trying to pronounce Jean-Jacques correctly turned out to be a real torture, so he asked me "do you mind if I call you Jayjay?" and that remained so forever...Jean-Jacques
Just as a point to see both sides-mods like Jeremy and I have our plates full every day deleting posts and banning spammers. It is a huge problem which is probably transparent to avsim users because it for the most part is quickly and silently taken care of by volunteers here.Yes it is a pity-but like all things especially in today's world-we get dragged down by the lowest common denominator.Do you have any suggestions how to solve the problem? We have been trying to figure a way to fix this rampant problem also.

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Spam in our forums and email systems is a scourge on all honest people. Spam registrations are a huge distraction these days.Hard to gauge how much time is expended annully just to get rid of this mess but it ain't small potatoes. :( :(

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Just as a point to see both sides-mods like Jeremy and I have our plates full every day deleting posts and banning spammers. It is a huge problem which is probably transparent to avsim users because it for the most part is quickly and silently taken care of by volunteers here.Yes it is a pity-but like all things especially in today's world-we get dragged down by the lowest common denominator.Do you have any suggestions how to solve the problem? We have been trying to figure a way to fix this rampant problem also.
Geofa, no I do not have any magical solution, but in my opinion, asking for full name and first name isn't one either, because instead of my real name "Jean-Jacques Struyf" I could use "Marcel VanSteenkisten" or my wife's maiden name and it would not protect you against spammers either, no?Jean-JacquesP.S. And I agree, spamming is a real problem for you guys

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Of course - a commercial members reaction!What are they doing here anyway???
Because we consider FS as a hobby too, for starters...

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Spam protection is just a red herring. FSD recently upgraded their forum software, yet still kept the same requirement as in their previous software. Other forums using the software do not have the same restrictions... Curiously double-standard too, when they also insist on a `proper` email address when many simmers use a convenience address for forums precisely because the forum security is ineffective at preventing spammers from obtaining the email addresses of customers and using them for spam purposes. Not only that, its laughable coming from a development team that previously utilised an intrusive worm that inserted itself into the users Registry... The status of the email provider has absolutely NO bearing on spam intrusion and I'd be interested in any evidence that FSD might have to back up their specious requirements. I run a technical forum as part of my role in real life and I can assure you that my users - from all over the World including those countries supposedly notorious for spamming - have no such restrictions nor do they pose any greater spam or viral threat than any other service user. I deal with a profusion of first-time posters as well as regular users who use different email addresses and ISP's at different times AND include attachments. A far higher risk state than anything a mere flight simulation developer can encounter. We have no spam problem and we don't require shoe size and mothers maiden name for registration, even though we have more than a thousand accesses to the fora every single day from unknown or first-time users, including linked accesses from information sites.The exploitation of loopholes is actually worse at source than it is at the ISP. We, as part of our ISO certification, protect our acquired information in a very complex way. So what protections - guarantees if you will - can FSD offer that they safeguard such personal information in a way that doesn't lay their forum users open to being abused? No point blaming the users when the provider is most often the source of the risk. What security standards do FSD adhere to? Do they even have an Approved Quality and Safety Assurance system in place? The answer is no, they don't, because as part of that QA one is required to display the assurance or certification on the website. They don't.Sorry, but excuses are only tenable if they are believable - bit like the `promise` of a money back guarantee contradicted in writing by the Terms and Conditions of sale...Most other developers seem able to provide a courteous support service, accessible to legitimate customers without abusing the genuine buyer or being so inconsistent in their business approach. Why are FSD so different? And should that be a cause for concern? (it's a rhetorical question, non-customers here already confirm that the `hoop-jumping` is affecting their business), and if that is the case where is the long-term stability for customers?

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I can only speak for myself, obviously, but I don't really have a problem giving my real name as part of forum registration - or mother's maiden name and shoe size, for that matter. If it helps filter out spammers or is required to determine if you are a customer or not.As far as I'm concerned an apology was offered and accepted, and that pretty much ends it.

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