I posted herehttp://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=290338that I was going to try the CLS bird and, expecting a LITE model, wasn't anticipating something in the PMDG range of products, but maybe something like the Captain Sim birds, and/or Quality Wings B752 that while it doesn't have al;l the bells and whistles still does a good job, especially in light of the fact that a single pilot would never fly one of these aircraft unless in an emergency . And having every system modelled doesn't really matter to me, I sim for relaxation from my financial planning job and the relative stress of flying a GA plane without hitting someone or something.Firstly, the graphics on the VC are nothing short of amazing, each switch appears to be actually there. The wing view is also very good, flexing wings (just enough to emulate the MD80), and the texture on the wings is really nice. The flaps take almost a minute to go through one notch of movement, but that may be fixable in the .cfg, not sure.The install went well, however I'm glad that I saved the web page with the key on it as the e-mail never arrived for another 12 hours, and the bird will not install without the key.I have the EZDoc viewing app on my system, so I first ran the configuration to get the CLS bird correctly integrated.When first opening up the bird after installation, I couldn't see the VC. There's a configuration that you need to go to in Views/Instrument panels/ to enable the VC, although this could also be something to do with the EZDoc viewer, not sure. I also noticed that occasionally I would need to go back to the CLS configuration tool as the VC disappeared.I thought I would try the tutorial flight from KATL to KMIA. This is nicely laid out in the manual. One of the first things to do is to load the .FLT file but I could never find it in the FSX flight planner menu, nor in the usual location (FSX Files), so I had to create it from scratch. The next thing is to create a cold and dark situation, this takes up over 6 pages in the manual so I wondered why a saved situation wasn't available for this. It's nicely laid out in the manual, but takes a while to do it obviously. One thing I did notice was that the engines were running, which quit at the point that the tutorial had me turn off the fuel valves, so maybe it needs a cold and dark default plane loaded first? (Prior to having you turn off the fuel it says that the EOAP should be blanked out after shutting off the APU and EXT power, however mine was still very much aliove from live engines!)While turning stuff off I spent some time looking for the IGN switch- on the other MD8x products for FSX this is a rotary switch that can be turned to BOTH, or 1 or 2. In this sim it is a simple on/off switch (similar to the galley power switch), and maybe this model of the 80 uses such a simple functionality, I'm not sure.As I indicated above, notwithstanding the above "issues", the graphics on the VC are outstanding.Now to start up routine. I noted that the APU did not require the start pump to be turned on. When I engaged the APU generators I heard no noises (I had done the cold and dark routine with my headphones off). I later activated one of the 2D panels to get the copilot's panel for the hydraulic switches and bingo, I had sound from then on, not sure why I need a 2D panel to get the sounds going.The AP and FMS is totally unlike any other MD 8x that I have, but I expected this, the AP is the same as the stock planes (no VNAV of course), and the FMS just configures the loaded FSX flight plan. The ALT knob did not need to be armed after the altitude is set (as is the way all MD birds seem to be), however later pushing the ALT knob enabled the Vertical Speed that was set.For a LITE model, I wasn't disappointed, but not much similarity to the real thing if the Leonardo or CoolSky is anything to go by.I took off and noted that the aircraft had trouble keeping enough speed to stay ahead of the stall. I pressed the AP, SPD, ALT and NAV switches (similar to the FSX stock planes) and noted that the aircraft did not capture the nav track. Thinking that I may need to be on an intercept course to the NAV track, I turned the HDG knob to an intercept angle (the MAP display is a mini version of the FSX map), and then the AP banked at increasing angle up to a 90 bank where I lost control.At that stage I quit the sim as sitting in front of a PC monitor in Boulder (CO) on a summer's day is almost a local infraction of our culture here :), but thought I would write about what I did notice before I go out biking for the day. I will probably try it again, however I was somewhat disappointed at the scope of the LITE function as it applies to this product. I am not a real MD80 pilot, and not an expert on the MD80 functionality, so some of this may have been caused by my lack of knowledge of the aircraft.Thanks, Bruce.

I'll tack on to the thread. The VC is beautiful, rivaling Captain Sim. I've noticed a few quirks that a service pack will probably address soon enough.Waypoint labels do not always show.Heading bug does not always move.L&R Start Valve warnings remain active.Loud fan sound when cold and dark.Starting engines seems to be a hit or miss affair (might be my problem).For flying with canned ATC, this is great and I don't miss VNAV. Heck, compared to a 727 this is the starship Enterprise.I like the clouds of dark exhaust trailing behind. Greenhouse gasses? Never heard of 'em.I've been happily playing with it all day. I'm glad I can buy it direct from CLS as Just Flight's email activation system and charging for reactivations gets old.

Just Flight charge for reactivations? That's a new one on me. I've never had Just Flight charge me for any reactivation.I did have them tell me they had no record of one of my purchases once (and they refused to give me the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that I've bought stacks of stuff off them) which has kind of taken the shine of how I regard them. Still, generally speaking they've been good to deal with and happily reactivated anything (with one exception) that I've ever bought from them.Back on topic, not got this bird myself, but it sounds like CLS might have rushed this one out judging by the above comments. However, since even PMDG have to bang out patches (see front Avsim page) I wouldn't be too concerned about the odd glitch showing up this early after release. I'm sure they will sort it. In any case, it's nice to have a light version of the MD for those who don't have ten hours to spare for a pre-flight :( Keep the reports coming guys. The MD ain't my favourite plane, I'm more a fan of the original DC-9, although I do have the Flight 1 MD, so I may yet be tempted by this simpler treatment.Al

I like the grimy pink interior color. It is a more of a brownish pink. This bird is not for those that like their airplanes fresh off the assembly line. I think it is as good as Captain Sim's 727, my previous benchmark.None of the bugs have prevented me from flying it as intended, i.e. no show-stoppers. And it wouldn't surprise me to find out that half of them are due to me doing something unexpected. (I notice I am only drawing from the left main, however, which could cause problems.)The passengers are modeled inside the cabin for viewing from the windows, not in 3-D, but it hardly matters in this instance and the effect is great. One of them may be D.B. Cooper, so be careful. There is a pushback truck, but, alas, if there are baggage trolleys or anything else such as their 747-200, I haven't found them. Most everything seems to move or light up, although not much has an actual effect on the sim. But if you're applying correct procedures you wouldn't know, would you? Anyway, I'll post some screenies in a bit.

(I notice I am only drawing from the left main, however, which could cause problems.)

Fuel was exhausted in the left main, leaving five-thousand pounds untouched in the right. I don't know what the engines were running on, but they kept on turning. There are some gremlins.

I like the grimy pink interior color. It is a more of a brownish pink. This bird is not for those that like their airplanes fresh off the assembly line. I think it is as good as Captain Sim's 727, my previous benchmark.None of the bugs have prevented me from flying it as intended, i.e. no show-stoppers. And it wouldn't surprise me to find out that half of them are due to me doing something unexpected. (I notice I am only drawing from the left main, however, which could cause problems.)The passengers are modeled inside the cabin for viewing from the windows, not in 3-D, but it hardly matters in this instance and the effect is great. One of them may be D.B. Cooper, so be careful. There is a pushback truck, but, alas, if there are baggage trolleys or anything else such as their 747-200, I haven't found them. Most everything seems to move or light up, although not much has an actual effect on the sim. But if you're applying correct procedures you wouldn't know, would you? Anyway, I'll post some screenies in a bit.

Tim,Thanks for the review on this new MD-80. I am still slightly holding off on buying. I was almost about to go "lite" but I don't think I will be satisfied with it unless I get through the start-up procedures first, then fly. I have the Leonardo version and still would like to get the Sky Simulations DC-9. And D.B. Cooper on board... Can you escape out the back during flight on the CLS version???Keith

Tim,Thanks for the review on this new MD-80. I am still slightly holding off on buying. I was almost about to go "lite" but I don't think I will be satisfied with it unless I get through the start-up procedures first, then fly. I have the Leonardo version and still would like to get the Sky Simulations DC-9. And D.B. Cooper on board... Can you escape out the back during flight on the CLS version???Keith

You can absolutely get through start up procedures, keeping in mind that most of the switches you click aren't actuallly going to do anything except let you pretend you are starting up the airplane, which, if you get right down to it, is what it's all about. There are not as many steps as the Coolsky version, let alone the Maddog, both of which I have (but don't fly anymore). If you are a sucker for graphics, then you ought to be happy. If you require procedural and system fidelity, you might want to pass. It hits the sweet spot for me.There are a lot of aspects to realism. You can follow procedures, you can keep to a schedule, and you can try to give your passengers a comfortable ride. System fidelity is just part of it for me. I think I am somewhat like a model railroader. I get pleasure out of big things being recreated in miniature, and I enjoy soaking up the visual detail on a big screen and watching machines in motion.They do need to work out the kinks, though. It is unfortunate that the standard seems to be release a known buggy product then patch, but that's what we have with nearly all developers. I don't mind too much since there is something to be said for being one of the first kids on the block with a new toy.Can you let down the rear stairs? I've been too busy flying her to worry about getting paying passengers on board yet. And I don't know if they put Cooper vanes on MD-80s like they did the 727s.

However, since even PMDG have to bang out patches (see front Avsim page) ....Al

Actually that's not a PMDG patch, but a patch for FS2CREW for the PMDG JS-41

You can absolutely get through start up procedures, keeping in mind that most of the switches you click aren't actuallly going to do anything except let you pretend you are starting up the airplane, which, if you get right down to it, is what it's all about. There are not as many steps as the Coolsky version, let alone the Maddog, both of which I have (but don't fly anymore). If you are a sucker for graphics, then you ought to be happy. If you require procedural and system fidelity, you might want to pass. It hits the sweet spot for me.There are a lot of aspects to realism. You can follow procedures, you can keep to a schedule, and you can try to give your passengers a comfortable ride. System fidelity is just part of it for me. I think I am somewhat like a model railroader. I get pleasure out of big things being recreated in miniature, and I enjoy soaking up the visual detail on a big screen and watching machines in motion.They do need to work out the kinks, though. It is unfortunate that the standard seems to be release a known buggy product then patch, but that's what we have with nearly all developers. I don't mind too much since there is something to be said for being one of the first kids on the block with a new toy.Can you let down the rear stairs? I've been too busy flying her to worry about getting paying passengers on board yet. And I don't know if they put Cooper vanes on MD-80s like they did the 727s.

Hi Tim,Did you see what I posted on the startup? I still don't know what happened when I missed the nav track then tried turning to intercept it, then got the dreaded 90 degree bank before it all went to pieces :). Up till then I was like you, OK with it as a graphics-excellent aircraft but not what I would use if I wanted to practice MD80 start-up procedures. Thanks- and yes, it is on a par (or better) with the CS 727, I agree.Bruce.

Keep the reports coming guys. The MD ain't my favourite plane, I'm more a fan of the original DC-9, although I do have the Flight 1 MD, so I may yet be tempted by this simpler treatment.Al

Will do Al, unfortunately I am "PC-less" until I get some Win 7 install issues resolved, probably earliest later in the week.Bruce.

The VC was impressive, it was better than the Flight1/Maddog/Coolsky versions. All buttons are functional. The sounds are however decent, they don't sound too well. The flight dynamics were smooth though, and the aircraft was somehow frame rate friendly. I haven't bought this baby yet, though, I'll be getting it once I have some more cash.

As I mentioned on another thread, I purchased the advanced beta copy. They offered a discounted version to 10 people to test the installer and give first impressions, look for bugs... When the official one came out we got it for free. In essence, I have been flying it for about three weeks.I have encountered the nav issue as well. I think there is a little confusion on which mode you are in with the ap on the only way to know for sure what mode you are in is to hover the mouse over the button to see if it is on or off. I think the confusion comes from the way the buttons are labled. I believe the NAV button is the NAV button and the VOR/LOC button is the nav1/gps toggle. If both are on it will capture the flight plan just fine. Where I have had problems with it it banking rather than intercepting the flight plan is on approach. I use canned ATC and on approach I follow atc heading instructions. When I am given the last vector to intercept the ILS, I switch from HDG back to NAV/GPS to intercept the approach in the GPS. I have found that will begin to intercept the approach but rather than lining up with the runway it will keep turning. Again, I think it is because I an not in the correct mode but I'll have to play with it more. I don't get why the VOR/LOC button needs to be on for it to follow the flightplan but it won't follow the approach in the GPS. I guess a closer reading of the manual may help me a bit.Yes, the rear stairs operate. There is supposed to be a click spot on the glarshield below the lower left corner of the captain's windscreen that will bring an icon group. I don't have the click spot but it may be because I have moved around the pop up windows so that the 10 most important ones are listed in the first 10 so they can be called up in the vc.Here are thier first 10:Window00=CLS MD80 OPEN SPLASHWindow01=CLS MD80 WIDEWindow02=CLS MD80 CAPT MAINWindow03=CLS MD80 FO MAINWindow04=CLS MD80 ECUWindow05=CLS MD80 PEDASTAL LOWERWindow06=CLS MD80 ANUNNCIATORWindow07=CLS MD80 SIDE PANELWindow08=CLS MD80 OVERHEADWindow09=CLS MD80 OVERHEAD AFTHere are my first 10:Window00=CLS MD80 OPEN SPLASHWindow01=CLS MD80 WIDEWindow02=CLS MD80 CAPT MAINWindow03=CLS MD80 VC ICON GROUPWindow04=CLS MD80 TCASWindow05=GPSWindow06=CS Weather RadarWindow07=CLS MD80 EXITS CAPTWindow08=XGaugeWindow09=CLS MD80 OVERHEADThe VC ICON GROUP will bring up will bring up the exits, pushback tug, operate the fron airstairs and the rear stairs. The CLS MD80 EXITS CAP will bring up a window that operates the PAX/Cargo doors.I have not had any issed with iot exausing fuel in one wing tank before the other. I havn't touched the fuel pump settings from the way the ac loads and it seems to draw off of all three tanks at the same time.As far as the VC not being visable when the aircraft loads - that is not EZDok. I had the issue before I configured it. You have to hit shift-1 to pull up the cockpit selection screen when you first load the aircarft. On the beta version, that screen didn't have the vc listed - just 2d. It was one of my complaints and I am glad they changed it. Before you had to load the 2d, pull down the icon group and dislay the vc.I have not had any trouble with it keeping speed on takeoff but I think thier speeds are a little high. When you calculate take off speeds in the FMS it always seems to give you +140kts for V2. I don't have RW information on what it should be but that seems high to me.L&R Start Valve warnings remain active - There are two engine switches on the lower overhead labeled ENGINE AI. Flipping those should extinguish those warning lightsI don't know if the product is buggy necessarily. Of course, most developers have a few kinks in their products but I think some of the issues (at least for me) stem from a lack of understanding of the logic behind some of the functions. It doesn't quite operate like the default aircarft but it also doesn't operate like an MD-80.Overall, I like it but I will need to keep playing with it.

First Impressions ReduxEngine starting is better as I become more familiar with it. And that fuel issue was on account of my default Cessna (which I never fly) suddenly decided to switch fuel tanks. So it is not as buggy as I thought. Very happy with it.

As I mentioned on another thread, I purchased the advanced beta copy. They offered a discounted version to 10 people to test the installer and give first impressions, look for bugs... When the official one came out we got it for free. In essence, I have been flying it for about three weeks.I have encountered the nav issue as well. I think there is a little confusion on which mode you are in with the ap on the only way to know for sure what mode you are in is to hover the mouse over the button to see if it is on or off. I think the confusion comes from the way the buttons are labled. I believe the NAV button is the NAV button and the VOR/LOC button is the nav1/gps toggle. If both are on it will capture the flight plan just fine. Where I have had problems with it it banking rather than intercepting the flight plan is on approach. I use canned ATC and on approach I follow atc heading instructions. When I am given the last vector to intercept the ILS, I switch from HDG back to NAV/GPS to intercept the approach in the GPS. I have found that will begin to intercept the approach but rather than lining up with the runway it will keep turning. Again, I think it is because I an not in the correct mode but I'll have to play with it more. I don't get why the VOR/LOC button needs to be on for it to follow the flightplan but it won't follow the approach in the GPS. I guess a closer reading of the manual may help me a bit.Yes, the rear stairs operate. There is supposed to be a click spot on the glarshield below the lower left corner of the captain's windscreen that will bring an icon group. I don't have the click spot but it may be because I have moved around the pop up windows so that the 10 most important ones are listed in the first 10 so they can be called up in the vc.Here are thier first 10:Window00=CLS MD80 OPEN SPLASHWindow01=CLS MD80 WIDEWindow02=CLS MD80 CAPT MAINWindow03=CLS MD80 FO MAINWindow04=CLS MD80 ECUWindow05=CLS MD80 PEDASTAL LOWERWindow06=CLS MD80 ANUNNCIATORWindow07=CLS MD80 SIDE PANELWindow08=CLS MD80 OVERHEADWindow09=CLS MD80 OVERHEAD AFTHere are my first 10:Window00=CLS MD80 OPEN SPLASHWindow01=CLS MD80 WIDEWindow02=CLS MD80 CAPT MAINWindow03=CLS MD80 VC ICON GROUPWindow04=CLS MD80 TCASWindow05=GPSWindow06=CS Weather RadarWindow07=CLS MD80 EXITS CAPTWindow08=XGaugeWindow09=CLS MD80 OVERHEADThe VC ICON GROUP will bring up will bring up the exits, pushback tug, operate the fron airstairs and the rear stairs. The CLS MD80 EXITS CAP will bring up a window that operates the PAX/Cargo doors.I have not had any issed with iot exausing fuel in one wing tank before the other. I havn't touched the fuel pump settings from the way the ac loads and it seems to draw off of all three tanks at the same time.As far as the VC not being visable when the aircraft loads - that is not EZDok. I had the issue before I configured it. You have to hit shift-1 to pull up the cockpit selection screen when you first load the aircarft. On the beta version, that screen didn't have the vc listed - just 2d. It was one of my complaints and I am glad they changed it. Before you had to load the 2d, pull down the icon group and dislay the vc.I have not had any trouble with it keeping speed on takeoff but I think thier speeds are a little high. When you calculate take off speeds in the FMS it always seems to give you +140kts for V2. I don't have RW information on what it should be but that seems high to me.L&R Start Valve warnings remain active - There are two engine switches on the lower overhead labeled ENGINE AI. Flipping those should extinguish those warning lightsI don't know if the product is buggy necessarily. Of course, most developers have a few kinks in their products but I think some of the issues (at least for me) stem from a lack of understanding of the logic behind some of the functions. It doesn't quite operate like the default aircarft but it also doesn't operate like an MD-80.Overall, I like it but I will need to keep playing with it.

Well, the model you're using is beta, and usually beta models have bugs such as missing gauges and stuff, particularly because the model is an unfinished model that has been released for more than a month or so. If you feel so dissatisfied with the beta model, its best to buy the full model or go over to the Flight1 models.

Well, the model you're using is beta, and usually beta models have bugs such as missing gauges and stuff, particularly because the model is an unfinished model that has been released for more than a month or so. If you feel so dissatisfied with the beta model, its best to buy the full model or go over to the Flight1 models.

To me it seems some of the cockpit gauges have a cartoonish look (ie the Eicas). I would have liked to have seen a more textured lookfrom those gauges. The VC and the Ext models both look very good, its seems to be getting good frame rates for me (maybe due to less cockpit texturing ?).I seem to also detect the looping of the sounds, in particular the Engine noise. Its slight, but I seem to hear the engine noise sound end, and replayagain with a bit of a click at the end. Maybe its just me ?Also don't like hearing Boeing 747 GPWS alt callouts in an MD80. Maybe somewhere along the line we can get B*t*hing Betty sounds as replacementsfor those.Its a harder plane to trim as well IMO, a little harder to hand fly, than say their 747 is.But all in all, its a keeper IMO.Regards.Ernie.

I noticed the engine looping during climb.I spent most of last night trying to get cockpit sounds and finally had to admit defeat. It's either a keeper or a problem child; I haven't decided which :(