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npoulis

Would you accept Microsoft Flight to be subscription based?

  

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  1. 1. Would you accept a subscription based MS Flight Simulator?



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Well here is a question that was on my mind many years now.What if... Microsoft would release MS Flight or something else in the future that is subscription based?Well, you could say subscribe, for what?Let's say that MS would supply you with updated data all the time, regarding New buildings,new planes,airport info (official and correct) , NAVAIDS, Routes, Charts (accurate and updated as in real life), Real traffic if not flying on line.Real accurate weather.NAV CYCLES for FMS (FMS in it's planes)On line service as VATSIM or IVAO (including clients for radars and in 3D towers , simulating ATC environment)A decent voice chat system.Even support for virtual airlines (ranked or not).A realistic economy system.Would you pay for that and how much per month?If and only if...What else would you expect in a paid service?I would love to hear your comments.Nick

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Probably Not. Such an approach would in all probability lead me to retain FSX and FS9 and continue to enjoy only them. I am very apprehensive and suspicious of most such scenarios.The proof would be in the pudding LONG after a track record was established. Results as posted on forums such as this would be the determining factor as to whether I would ever buy into such an offering or not. Sounds like the possibility of another case where one MIGHT pay to become a beta tester to me.Respectfully:RTH

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No - and it won't happen. MS isn't in the aviation business.DJ

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No - and it won't happen.  MS isn't in the aviation business.DJ
What does this response mean? We all know they are not in the aviation business but MS still releases Flight Sims, perhaps you didnt know this?  So you can still have a subscription based flight sim without being in the aviation business.

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What does this response mean? We all know they are not in the aviation business but MS still releases Flight Sims, perhaps you didnt know this?  So you can still have a subscription based flight sim without being in the aviation business.
You sure can't have one with the feature set proposed by the OP without being in the Aviation business - or buying a substantial segment of that business's time and product. Things like:<<airport info (official and correct) , NAVAIDS, Routes, Charts (accurate and updated as in real life), Real traffic if not flying on line.Real accurate weather.NAV CYCLES for FMS >>come from the Aviation industry and government - not MS. There is absolutely no reason for MS to want to go there for the simple reason that there's no money in it and a lot of potential aggravation. Incidentally, the question of whether or not MS still releases Flight Sims seems to be open - we'll see. Is that all clearer now?DJ

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Are you truly going to have any choice ?
HelloYes FS9 and FSX

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You sure can't have one with the feature set proposed by the OP without being in the Aviation business - or buying a substantial segment of that business's time and product. Things like:<<airport info (official and correct) , NAVAIDS, Routes, Charts (accurate and updated as in real life), Real traffic if not flying on line.Real accurate weather.NAV CYCLES for FMS >>come from the Aviation industry and government - not MS.  There is absolutely no reason for MS to want to go there for the simple reason that there's no money in it and a lot of potential aggravation.  Incidentally, the question of whether or not MS still releases Flight Sims seems to be open - we'll see.  Is that all clearer now?DJ
If providing these aviation items, helps to sell more copies of FS .. then MS has motivation.  Apple is not in the record business .. but selling music moves their Ipod devices.   MS could use a similar model.Additionally, the micro-transactions for selling those aviation products could be a decent revenue stream as well.

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If providing these aviation items, helps to sell more copies of FS .. then MS has motivation.  Apple is not in the record business .. but selling music moves their Ipod devices.   MS could use a similar model.Additionally, the micro-transactions for selling those aviation products could be a decent revenue stream as well.
I doubt that there are enough buyers to make the investment and upkeep worth while. We enthusiasts are a very small market when compared to the investment to produce and maintain these items, and it's very unclear that the general market cares about them. We've seen the simulation market dwindle to near non-existence over the past 20 years as a consequence. It isn't like the printer (read, licence to sell ink) market or music market that has a much larger base of possible sales. My daughter will (left unimpeded) buy hundreds of dollars worth of music each month - I doubt that kind of market is possible in FS.DJ

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I doubt that there are enough buyers to make the investment and upkeep worth while.  We enthusiasts are a very small market when compared to the investment to produce and maintain these items, and it's very unclear that the general market cares about them.  We've seen the simulation market dwindle to near non-existence over the past 20 years as a consequence.  It isn't like the printer (read, licence to sell ink) market or music market that has a much larger base of possible sales.  My daughter will (left unimpeded) buy hundreds of dollars worth of music each month - I doubt that kind of market is possible in FS.DJ
that size of market isnt possible for FS .. but it doenst mean that if your demographic is smaller than the licensed music industry . .then you can't have a market.   Additionally, MSFS has sold 6 million copies over the years .. one of the best selling PC game franchises, period .... the only reason MS isnt still selling its 500k-700k/yr is because they need a new version .. thus, MS flight.  The sales will be back to the 500k - 700k number after release.   It might not make good business sense to add some aviation content to a micro-transaction based service .. most of which dont have anything to do with MS being in the aviation business or not. 

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that size of market isnt possible for FS .. but it doenst mean that if your demographic is smaller than the licensed music industry . .then you can't have a market.   Additionally, MSFS has sold 6 million copies over the years .. one of the best selling PC game franchises, period .... the only reason MS isnt still selling its 500k-700k/yr is because they need a new version .. thus, MS flight.  The sales will be back to the 500k - 700k number after release.   It might not make good business sense to add some aviation content to a micro-transaction based service .. most of which dont have anything to do with MS being in the aviation business or not. 
Let's try it again with this list:airport info (official and correct) , NAVAIDS, Routes, Charts (accurate and updated as in real life), Real traffic if not flying on line.Real accurate weather.NAV CYCLES for FMS airport info, navaids, routes, and charts are available for free in the US, the UK, and a good part of the rest of the world. For the rest they are available at minimal cost from Navigraph.Real traffic if not flying on line is available for free from various third party AI traffic sources.Real accurate weather is available for a one time investment of very few dollars from HiFi.Nav cycles are available at minimal cost from Navigraph for all, or most, FS aircraft on the market that are FMS equipped.Why in the world should MS go to the trouble of furnishing and maintaining this material on a subscription basis? It makes no business sense at all and destroys a fair part of the 3rd party dev market that MS has supported for years.DJ

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Guest veeray

Don't rack your head man.... some of these people don't play any other games obviously. What they're asking for is World Of Warcraft and it's starting to get annoying that people can't distinguish a flight simulator from a MMOPRGP. How stupid do you have to be not to realize there is a huge difference. Even Starcraft II isn't subsription based and it's 100x closer to that reality.

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Don't rack your head man.... some of these people don't play any other games obviously. What they're asking for is World Of Warcraft and it's starting to get annoying that people can't distinguish a flight simulator from a MMOPRGP. How stupid do you have to be not to realize there is a huge difference. Even Starcraft II isn't subsription based and it's 100x closer to that reality.
You jump to conclusions too easy my friend.

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Let's try it again with this list:airport info (official and correct) , NAVAIDS, Routes, Charts (accurate and updated as in real life), Real traffic if not flying on line.Real accurate weather.NAV CYCLES for FMS airport info, navaids, routes, and charts are available for free in the US, the UK, and a good part of the rest of the world.  For the rest they are available at minimal cost from Navigraph.Real traffic if not flying on line is available for free from various third party AI traffic sources.Real accurate weather is available for a one time investment of very few dollars from HiFi.Nav cycles are available at minimal cost from Navigraph for all, or most, FS aircraft on the market that are FMS equipped.Why in the world should MS go to the trouble of furnishing and maintaining this material on a subscription basis?  It makes no business sense at all and destroys a fair part of the 3rd party dev market that MS has supported for years.DJ
I already said that it might not make business sense.....

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Don't rack your head man.... some of these people don't play any other games obviously.   What they're asking for is World Of Warcraft and it's starting to get annoying that people can't distinguish a flight simulator from a MMOPRGP.   How stupid do you have to be not to realize there is a huge difference.    Even Starcraft II isn't subsription based and it's 100x closer to that reality.
I believe that most of these people do play other games .... plus, I don't see any one asking for a subscription service.  And if you are calling me crazy .. thats so far from the truth its not even funny... but, I do see when people are lost for words .. they start to call others names.My comments to the other guy was related to his statement that MS is not in the aviation business ..... I can think of a boat load of reasons why MS might not provide aviation aids, all of each have nothing to do with being in or out of the aviation business .. that was my pt.  Because I do play other games ... the micro-transaction model is growing and most game producers are looking for ways to provide DLC products. MS will likely have some level of DLC with the next release.  

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Guest veeray
I believe that most of these people do play other games .... plus, I don't see any one asking for a subscription service. And if you are calling me crazy .. thats so far from the truth its not even funny... but, I do see when people are lost for words .. they start to call others names.
Uhmm read the topic for this thread, and the second sentence in the OP post... so yeah you are crazy for your outbursts.

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Never!! I would keep FSX + FS9 as long as something normal comes out...Microsoft is already rich enough, now they should even push out little companies like PMDG, Aerosoft out?Should we one day live through two companies, McDonalds and Microsoft??? C'mon...

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Guest wingflex

I'd like to see myself as a pretty open minded guy, but this just would not fly with me. I enjoy being able to customize and fine tune my sim to my liking. I don't want a giant corporation doing it for me.If it aint broke, don't fix it. Obviously there are things that are broke, and need fixing, but this is not one of them.

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For most serious MSFS simmers, such a move would end the hobby at FSX for them -- includes myself. The open nature of MSFS, and the third party market it has created, and the ability of simmers to go as deep as they want into the sim, has been its cornerstone of success. Let us hope that good business sense trumps greed in this case. MS should make a good and fair profit from selling their product --- ONCE. Subscriptions? --- Shame%20On%20You.gif (Don't mess up a free lunch...)

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Would I? Absolutely. I've played many subscription based online games, and I'd welcome the influx of development cash such a system would bring to Flight sims. Of course, the details would need to be right, such as a real world interactive ATC environment, real weather, real nav procedures, aiplanes that know how to slip, etc. And paramount would be an integrated online marketplace for addon items like aircraft, scenerey etc.It could be done "right" and if so, would be more than worth the usual $15/month fee.Then again, I'm also a guy who would have gladly paid $200 for an FSX version with all the suck removed, so maybe I'm not typical...

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If Flight was subscription based and it had all of the features that you said, sure I would buy it. But is that the realistic situation? No. Everything about Flight has been to appeal to more casual gamers, and nothing about this would accomplish that. The more realistic situation that includes subscriptions would be that we end up having to pay a monthly fee for things like new missions and large (casual) multiplayer servers. This I would not pay for.

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If Flight was subscription based and it had all of the features that you said, sure I would buy it.  But is that the realistic situation?  No.  Everything about Flight has been to appeal to more casual gamers, and nothing about this would accomplish that.  The more realistic situation that includes subscriptions would be that we end up having to pay a monthly fee for things like new missions and large (casual) multiplayer servers.  This I would not pay for.
you can have sim that appeals to the casual and the enthusiast at the same time ....

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The problem isn't that Microsoft should make the sim all full of detail and then charge for it, but that the detail is in the eye of the beholder.Why are we seeing so many different screenshots, each one with different set of sky textures, dusk/dawn colors, in different parts of the world at different parts of the year.Something like that, which has taken many many man hours and very talented people (=addons), is not possible for Microsoft to replicate. And if they don't reach such quality, why should I pay for such service? And I think many other simmers share my opinion.But then, in the end, how many are there in the world doing that? Microsoft is out for money... nothing else.

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Thanks for your reply guys. I see most of you are very negative to such marketing scheme. In my opinion if and only if Microsoft could stand up to the competition and really be equal or better to 3rd party software, I would accept a micropayment or subscription fee.That is if and only if and I would never encourage a subscription scheme just for $$$. I would be very demanding with the quality of tools, addons and services.Many said (correctly) that nobody has to pay for something should not use. I agree but sicne I am not a market professional, I just suppose that could besolved using different kind of subscriptions.

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For the most part, he only really profitable PC game projects these days are subscription based (ie MMO's like WoW). Profit drives innovation, and it makes a lot of sense for a flight simulator to follow this model for other reasons as well. Consider the similarities between FS and World of Warcraft:1) Long "life". FS users play the same version for *years*, same with MMO's. Contrast that with something like a Call of Duty or some other 40 hour game. Long life makes the platform worth investing in.2) Add-on content. MMO's survive by offering pay as you go content to expand the game world. Same with FS, just look at the richness of the payware market.3) Massively multiplayer. VATSIM on a global scale. Enough said, yes?There's potential here. For those that are resistant to this idea due to the lack of good internet connectivity where you live, I sympathize. For those that hate the idea of MS or anyone making "profit", get over it.

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