Mailing list for NGX release

[dan12 0]

One question could you guys stop ######ing around with all this no pressure crap and just tell us when you are releasing it even if it is june 2011 all of the people I have chatted with dont care how long it will take it would just be good to have a timeframe. so please for ######s sake tell us!!!!!:(

[WestAir 2,530]

One question could you guys stop ######ing around with all this no pressure crap and just tell us when you are releasing it even if it is june 2011 all of the people I have chatted with dont care how long it will take it would just be good to have a timeframe. so please for ######s sake tell us!!!!!:(

They can't tell us if they don't know. Software development isn't something that can be planned and predicted to any reasonable accuracy. What should take a day to design, code, and implement could take an hour or ten weeks.It's sort of like estimating how long it will take you to drive across town. You don't know if there will be traffic, or if you'll hit every red light on the way. What would have been a 15 minute drive can easily take an hour. You just never know. :(

[Big_Les 1]

They can't tell us if they don't know. Software development isn't something that can be planned and predicted to any reasonable accuracy. What should take a day to design, code, and implement could take an hour or ten weeks.It's sort of like estimating how long it will take you to drive across town. You don't know if there will be traffic, or if you'll hit every red light on the way. What would have been a 15 minute drive can easily take an hour. You just never know. :(

I've been managing software releases for 10+ years and you can predict AND schedule software releases fairly accurately if you have the money, resources and know how to do it. Releasing it "When It's ready" is really an easy way out IF the release is not tied to a customer requirement and schedule. I fully understand why PMDG is "releasing when ready" as they are not tied to a release date by a customer who'll punish them if they're late. They are also probably unable to throw resources and money at a release in order to meet a deadline as they would be unable to pass this cost on to us the consumers.So in a nutshell... it can be done but it costs money. I for one would prefer to wait until it's "ready" rather than see the price go up dramatically or the quality suffer.Driving across town is a good one:

• You know what time you have to be somewhere and work backwards. (Planning)
• If you predict traffic, you give yourself more time (assess the risks and counter them in the schedule)
• Base your driving time estimation on previous similar journeys (good estimating model)
• Factor in contingencies (If it can go wrong, it probably will)
• Make sure your car is serviced and not liable to break down (feed dev more peanuts and make sure your teams are in order)

Works for me.... I'm never late.....

[Michar83 7]

couldn't we have a mailing list which lets us know when the thing goes gold

Ever heard of Twitter and Facebook?Mailinglists are so 2010 ;)

[vscimone 16]

Ever heard of Twitter and Facebook?Mailinglists are so 2010 ;)

BBs are so 1988

[Guest wims]

One question could you guys stop ######ing around with all this no pressure crap and just tell us when you are releasing it even if it is june 2011 all of the people I have chatted with dont care how long it will take it would just be good to have a timeframe. so please for ######s sake tell us!!!!!:(

They said 2017 so thats the release date for you. July 2017 to be precise. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/318828-a-little-heads-up-on-the-ngx/page__st__1150__p__1903856#entry1903856

[aceridgey 330]

I was under the impression from what was said very late 2010, is that there willl be very little time for us to see the updates and actually flying this thing after the new year...

[paulyg123 135]

You are forgetting that PMDG and LevelD are not real companies pushing out a product and needing their software for corporate earnings. They are not staffed with full time programmes. They are hobbies with part time workers. Only a real software company, who must answer to shareholders - owners etc., with a full time staff can deliver software development on a schedule.LevelD makes it clear that it is a hobby for them. They haven't updated their "News" on the opening page since 2008.I am just happy PDMG and LevelD delivers such a great product. I still enjoy my 747 and LD767 and can't believe how realistic they are. No matter how long the wait, I'll be first on line. But I DO hate checking both sites each day (for the last year+) for a morsel of news.

[Tabs 2,790]

You can be a "real company" without having shareholders... PMDG is a registered private LLC. This is more than hobby for us but yes, short of a public company with shareholders.

[787flyer 647]

I've been managing software releases for 10+ years and you can predict AND schedule software releases fairly accurately if you have the money, resources and know how to do it. Releasing it "When It's ready" is really an easy way out IF the release is not tied to a customer requirement and schedule. I fully understand why PMDG is "releasing when ready" as they are not tied to a release date by a customer who'll punish them if they're late. They are also probably unable to throw resources and money at a release in order to meet a deadline as they would be unable to pass this cost on to us the consumers.So in a nutshell... it can be done but it costs money. I for one would prefer to wait until it's "ready" rather than see the price go up dramatically or the quality suffer.Driving across town is a good one:

• You know what time you have to be somewhere and work backwards. (Planning)
• If you predict traffic, you give yourself more time (assess the risks and counter them in the schedule)
• Base your driving time estimation on previous similar journeys (good estimating model)
• Factor in contingencies (If it can go wrong, it probably will)
• Make sure your car is serviced and not liable to break down (feed dev more peanuts and make sure your teams are in order)

Works for me.... I'm never late.....

Hey Paul,That was a very good response and spoken like a true project manager!I completely agree with you that this is entirely possible to have a software schedule and I don't believe there isn't a project schedule behind this development. PMDG have released products before so they are experienced with this and I would hope they don't "wing it".I assume the delay is down to the 3 common factors:-Scope - Well, we know NGX has more stuff in it than prior productsTime: As mentioned, not tied to a specific customer and so no penalties for being lateResources: Probably fixed resources right now (the planning for this was done some time ago I would imagine) since it appears the major development is done. It's the testing phase now and it's this team that needs to do the work. More testers could probably help the situation depending upon what is planned and if they have other testers available to be pulled in.Of course the real art of keeping to plan is planning for the unplanned which can happen in s/w, but you already mentioned this! In summary, I'm not surpised it's taking this long. Am i disappointed- Yes. Is it sad not to be fully informed about progress-Yes. Will I buy it when it's ready - not sure - I already spent my money on something else for this Christmas- Captain Sim 727 and 767. I'm quite happy to learn these aircraft rather than checking the forum each day.RegardsMark

[qnh 70]

BBs are so 1988

ahhh Netmail :)

[paulyg123 135]

What I was trying to say is that as a project engineer working in the energy industry, I managed many multi-million dollar projects. I do parts of the design, order all the materials, do the estimates, supervise the work crews, and make damn sure everything is finished on time and within budget. But we have real incentives to be on time. The ramifications of being late in a getting a power plant on line are HUGE. Developing a sim for a hobby doesn't have any time urgency. There are only 2 players in the game (in my opinion), and I am damn glad they are here. The LD767 and PDMD 747 (along with the 747 & 737 for FS9) provided me with so much enjoyment. I should have been a pilot - but I chose enginering instead (think of all those flight attendants!) - so this hobby means a lot to me. The original post mentioned a mailing list. I wish I knew the release date as I am tired (like everyone else) in checking LD and PDMG's site daily for the coming of the biggest event since I discovered my "special purpose". But I could wait as I have a feeling the new release will cost me $6000 for a new Alienware. I'll still buy the 737 on the release day.

Hey Paul,That was a very good response and spoken like a true project manager!I completely agree with you that this is entirely possible to have a software schedule and I don't believe there isn't a project schedule behind this development. PMDG have released products before so they are experienced with this and I would hope they don't "wing it".I assume the delay is down to the 3 common factors:-Scope - Well, we know NGX has more stuff in it than prior productsTime: As mentioned, not tied to a specific customer and so no penalties for being lateResources: Probably fixed resources right now (the planning for this was done some time ago I would imagine) since it appears the major development is done. It's the testing phase now and it's this team that needs to do the work. More testers could probably help the situation depending upon what is planned and if they have other testers available to be pulled in.Of course the real art of keeping to plan is planning for the unplanned which can happen in s/w, but you already mentioned this! In summary, I'm not surpised it's taking this long. Am i disappointed- Yes. Is it sad not to be fully informed about progress-Yes. Will I buy it when it's ready - not sure - I already spent my money on something else for this Christmas- Captain Sim 727 and 767. I'm quite happy to learn these aircraft rather than checking the forum each day.RegardsMark