but you don't offer even a vague description of what occurs in the video

I do here: "There's not much more anyone can do to me I think. Actually, strike that - I guess they could skin me alive..."

but you don't offer even a vague description of what occurs in the video

IF animals are subjected to prolonged discomfort or pain in the video, I don't care to watch it.

So then no, I suggest you do not watch itEDIT: Sorry, clicked on send before I finshed, so I'll coment on your other (and valid) points later.

Not that it really matters but since this is such a disturbing matter I don't want to let any detail slide uncorrected. This video is not 14 months old. The same footage (the most horrible part) was included in another animal rights video posted on youtube in January 2009.

You are quite right, within reason it doesn't really matter, but like i said: "I am informed the video is approximately 14 months old."

And what knowledge is that?Bob

Honestly.... Very little. I cannot pretend to be even remotely close to the inside workings.I only know personally, one active member. Obviously she is extremely selective about whom she will pass information, and that does not include me.

Honestly.... Very little. I cannot pretend to be even remotely close to the inside workings.I only know personally, one active member. Obviously she is extremely selective about whom she will pass information, and that does not include me.

OK. Thanks, Phil. Your interest in this group makes more sense, now. I believe that government organizations need to act in secrecy. I'm less sure about private groups (especially an animal rights group)that solicit funds from the public. You have a tie to this group, and that's fine. But I do not.I guess I don't understand how this group could have any clout, and others that are bigger and have been around a long time, could notBob

Did you get Nel's permission to post it, as you did Tom's?How about at the other sites that removed it?

Fair point JIm.No I did not. And, with hindsight, I'm sorry I didn't, and now regret I didn't try. I'm quite new to verbally trying to stand up for what I believe is right and just. Also, I'd had so many knock-backs, I just gave up and went ahead. No, not a sound excuse I know.I did try to edit that post not that long after, but it seems the option doesn't linger very long?Not much I can do about that now short of stating that: I unreservedly apologise to Flightsim.com, it's members and anyone else who took offense at that comment! I was fired up, but it was plain wrong.Personally, although I don't think it's required there also, as I didn't go back and post there. But, I believe you're a mod there? If you think I need to post that there, then I shall.

Hi,No, I don't believe the post was up long enough before Darryll removed it the other day. Some forums have more of a general type sub-forum for posting this kind of material, but other do not. Over at Flightsim, we do not per the wishes of the ownership.

Anyone who signed the petition get the 'confirmation email'?

Anyone who signed the petition get the 'confirmation email'?

I did.it's automated, so if you didn't get the confirmation, then they haven't received your sig.

I really think you've answered your own question there. don't you?I'm not going to start with... 'With respect', because in all honesty, it would not be true, I can I only say I believe your opinion to be not only incorrect, but misleading.

Phil, you have a very strange way to treat one who actually supports your efforts.I've not insulted your opinion one iota, yet for some strange reason you felt the need to give me a :( ...I've spent the over half of my sixty-two years living in the mid and far-east, and dealt at the street level with cultural differences. I am not now --nor have I ever been-- the prototypical Ugly American.

I did.it's automated, so if you didn't get the confirmation, then they haven't received your sig.

I didn't, yet my name still appears on the "signature list," despite the disclaimer that they couldn't "legally" add it without "confirmation" of receipt of their[/b] email request.

Best I go back a re study your post then. I don't believe I would have done that if I felt you were supporting me. If i've misunderstood, you have my apologies.EDIT:So sorry! Just been back and looked. Please allow me to explain what i THINK happened...Since I posted this topic, I've received some pretty heavy duty emails. For those who used genuine addresses, I very carefully responded. During this process there was a lot of cutting/copying & pasting in a Word document. I believe I know for whom that response was intended, and it was most DEFINATELY NOT yourself.I've always followed your posts here with interest. I don't think i'd :( you like that.I'm very sorry, please forgive me.

Good Lord...!I've just from reading the Air France thread above this one. Haven't looked at that for while.I'm seeing a lot more hate in there than i've seen or heard talked about in this rather sensitve topic. What's more, it's being directed from one idividual Avsim member to another.Certainly some :( going on there.What's going on - Is there something in the water :(

Good Lord...!I've just from reading the Air France thread above this one. Haven't looked at that for while.I'm seeing a lot more hate in there than i've seen or heard talked about in this rather sensitve topic. What's more, it's being directed from one idividual Avsim member to another.Certainly some :( going on there.What's going on - Is there something in the water :(

I gave up on that thread some time ago.Bob

I've always followed your posts here with interest. I don't think i'd :( you like that.I'm very sorry, please forgive me.

Thank you. As I'm sort of "in the forgiving business" anyway, that's easy enough for me to do... :(

i truly had a tear go down my face watching this its so cruel i signed it and am not going to forgt going to get my dad to donate. thats just insane and in humane

HORRIBLE! Though it wasn't as horrible as I first thought (I held my head a little bit away from my computer to prevent me from throwing up on it).Signed.