I think if I was MS Project Manager for FLIGHT- I would have a little plaque on my desk with the words of Robert Frost-"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,But I have promises to keepAnd miles to go before I sleep-And miles to go before I sleep."AR

+1

+1 to the OPMaking a judgement call on Flight right now is like judging the beauty of a woman by only speaking to her on the phone for 2 minutes. We know absolutely nothing abut Flight except for a few screenshots within a few square miles of Hawaii which is obviously a high detail area. We know absolutely nothing about how the rest of the world is rendered, performance on current systems, features, add-on compatibiliy, flight dynamics, underlying engine capabilities, multi-player ecosystem, SDK, etc. Nothing. The fact is that people who actually do know can't say (NDA - Non Disclosure Agreement) and people who say they know don't know anything (NIA - No Idea at All)."Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I have no intention of getting back on an FSX style roller coaster and being disappointed with the ride after all of the hype and promise when it was first released. It's just not worth the expense of energy as well as the fracturing of the community if Flight doesn't live up to the hype that some are building in their own minds. I'm cautiously optimistic that Microsoft learned the same lessons that Aces learned after the release of FSX and the hiring back of some of the Aces team means that those lessons will be incorported into Flight. I'm cautiously optimistic that Microsoft has lurked on the forums and heard the deep complaints as well as the accolades and figured out what they are doing right as well as what they did wrong and worked from that standpoint to deliver a product that unites the FS9 and FSX communities under one Flight umbrella. At the end of the day its going to be a tense wait and see attitude for me until more information is given than just a few 10 second videos of Hawaii. When Flight is finally released I'd rather shrug my shoulders and go "Meh" and continue flying FSX if its not up to the hype. Or, I'd rather be pleasently surprised and blown away by the improvements and features. But why begin falling in love with something you know nothing about? Kinda like my analogy above...if you fall in love with a woman after speaking to her for 2 minutes on the phone and finally meet her in person chances are that she probably is not going to be what you expected. This happens on every release of MSFS with the forums full of complaints and ill feelings over disappointment...some the fault of Microsoft (yeah the magic screenie thing was a disaster) but most of which is our own fault for hyping up the game to levels that it could not possibly attain.2 cents

+1 to the OP We know absolutely nothing abut Flight except for a few screenshots within a few square miles of Hawaii which is obviously a high detail area. We know absolutely nothing about how the rest of the world is rendered, performance on current systems, features, add-on compatibiliy, flight dynamics, underlying engine capabilities, multi-player ecosystem, SDK, etc. Nothing. The fact is that people who actually do know can't say (NDA - Non Disclosure Agreement) and people who say they know don't know anything (NIA - No Idea at All).

Mike, with all due respect have you not see this thread.. http://forum.avsim.n...with-ms-flight/ read it all.Do you really think that a NDA is bullet proof? Seriously? Let me tell you something, there is always somebody who's not happy about something somewhere, trust me on this one.Take this for example: Do you think the US goverment should not be protected from it's own soldiers, did you already forgot about wikileak? How did they get their info, from somebody who had a NDA with the army....nope... they got it directly from the inside so please don't say that peoples who do know don't say and people who say they know don't know.IMHO it would be very foolish for somebody who got something from the inside to tell on the source of the info, seriously.....??

Mike, with all due respect have you not see this thread.. http://forum.avsim.n...with-ms-flight/ read it all.Do you really think that a NDA is bullet proof? Seriously? Let me tell you something, there is always somebody who's not happy about something somewhere, trust me on this one.Take this for example: Do you think the US goverment should not be protected from it's own soldiers, did you already forgot about wikileak? How did they get their info, from somebody who had a NDA with the army....nope... they got it directly from the inside so please don't say that peoples who do know don't say and people who say they know don't know.IMHO it would be very foolish for somebody who got something from the inside to tell on the source of the info, seriously.....??

Actually I read all of that thread again and I couldn't see what point you were making, Mike's comments stand up pretty well and I'd say are shared by the majority on here IMO. For a Microsoft employee to break a legal contract with the company he or she probably loves would be foolish to the extreme not to mention getting fired and being held up in court. I think a lot of people who face NDA's as a daily way of life would find your comments very insulting to read, and it wasn't even a very good counter argument to begin with.Cheers,Dave.

Mike, with all due respect have you not see this thread.. http://forum.avsim.n...with-ms-flight/ read it all.Do you really think that a NDA is bullet proof? Seriously? Let me tell you something, there is always somebody who's not happy about something somewhere, trust me on this one.

Not a single poster in that thread is under a NDA.

Actually I read all of that thread again and I couldn't see what point you were making, Mike's comments stand up pretty well and I'd say are shared by the majority on here IMO. For a Microsoft employee to break a legal contract with the company he or she probably loves would be foolish to the extreme not to mention getting fired and being held up in court. I think a lot of people who face NDA's as a daily way of life would find your comments very insulting to read, and it wasn't even a very good counter argument to begin with.Cheers,Dave.

Include this in my post below.

Not a single poster in that thread is under a NDA.

Of course.....Fair enough, just go back and read my earlier post again, ( 4 > 5 months + ago), now we just have to wait and see if I was taken for a ride or if what I was saying and still saying will happen.If I was taken for a ride I'll be writing a new thread and say I was wrong and I was taken for a ride from the beginning.Here is what I said from the beginning,Flight using the same engine as FSX.FSX engine reworked to use the full potential of DX10 and tweaked to use today's hardware.MS market store, get your CC or paypal account ready and buy sceneries from MS ( made from an approved dev.) online from the store making software piracy almost impossible to do.No and I mean no FSX sceneries compatibility to Flight.MS trowing a little something at FSX user ( don't know exactly when).@ Dave, this is how I see it, before you can take somebody in court for breaking his or her NDA agreement don't you have to first find out who did, don't you?

Of course.....Fair enough, just go back and read my earlier post again, ( 4 > 5 months + ago), now we just have to wait and see if I was taken for a ride or if what I was saying and still saying will happen.If I was taken for a ride I'll be writing a new thread and say I was wrong and I was taken for a ride from the beginning.Here is what I said from the beginning,Flight using the same engine as FSX.FSX engine reworked to use the full potential of DX10 and tweaked to use today's hardware.MS market store, get your CC or paypal account ready and buy sceneries from MS ( made from an approved dev.) online from the store making software piracy almost impossible to do.No and I mean no FSX sceneries compatibility to Flight.MS trowing a little something at FSX user ( don't know exactly when).@ Dave, this is how I see it, before you can take somebody in court for breaking his or her NDA agreement don't you have to first find out who did, don't you?

I cant wait for when MS release more info, or in fact, when a new PCPilot mag comes out (or when this issue 73 arrives at my house ) and completely smash some of the things you just stated ... I mean come on, really? Sure there is a good chance there will be a online store for FLIGHT addons that is hosted by MS, but I really doubt for one thing, that they will make all the addons. Mind, I do agree that there is a good chance that FSX addons will likely not be compatible with FLIGHT, for the best in my opinion . But one last thing, software piracy isn't impossible, and never will be. Never say never ... (see what I did there? ) , there is always someone that pirates software, especially big names like MS. I just try to mostly stick to the facts, because you can never get too hyped for something (or too judgemental) on something that isn't even out yet, and with very little info released so far. Jamie ♥

I cant wait for when MS release more info, or in fact, when a new PCPilot mag comes out (or when this issue 73 arrives at my house :D ) and completely destroy some of the things you just said :( ... I mean come on, really? Sure there is a good change there will be a online store for all FLIGHT addons that is hosted by MS, but I really doubt for one thing, that they will make all the addons. Mind, I do agree that there is a good chance that FSX addons will likely not be compatible with FLIGHT, for the best in my opinion :) . But one last thing, software piracy isn't impossible, and never will be. Never say never ;) , there is always someone that pirates software, especially big names like MS. Jamie ♥

:( I said "almost impossible" . MS will not make the addons. they will sell them in their store (addons made from approved dev.)Guess what, if I am right on what I said there will still be peoples saying that I pull this out of my a$.$ and was just plain lucky.Saying what I said 6 + month ago was a sin to the hardcore simmers, again, when Flight was announced I was expecting a brand new engine from the ground up like a lot of others simmers here, lets just wait and see cause I'll be VERY happy if proven wrong.

Of course.....Fair enough, just go back and read my earlier post again, ( 4 > 5 months + ago), now we just have to wait and see if I was taken for a ride or if what I was saying and still saying will happen.If I was taken for a ride I'll be writing a new thread and say I was wrong and I was taken for a ride from the beginning.Here is what I said from the beginning,Flight using the same engine as FSX.FSX engine reworked to use the full potential of DX10 and tweaked to use today's hardware.MS market store, get your CC or paypal account ready and buy sceneries from MS ( made from an approved dev.) online from the store making software piracy almost impossible to do.No and I mean no FSX sceneries compatibility to Flight.MS trowing a little something at FSX user ( don't know exactly when).

Alain, just out of curosity, what do you want if all your predictions are true? In other words, what are you hoping to gain from your predictions about Flight should they come true? Are you going to go back to all the forums that you have posted your said predictions and tell everyone "I told you so" or "you all should have listened to me from the start"?The reason I ask is because I have never seen any one person since FS9 came out, who has taken so much time to first make a prediction and post it on many different forums, then follow thru on his predictions by continually updating the said posts with snips from other non-FS sites as material becomes available, or any other material as it becomes available. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but what are you going to say or do in the end if your right about all this stuff? I guess I just don't understand why it is so important to you for you to put forth the time and energy to do what you do, all with what seems to be the hope that you are right.

Alain, just out of curosity, what do you want if all your predictions are true? In other words, what are you hoping to gain from your predictions about Flight should they come true? Are you going to go back to all the forums that you have posted your said predictions and tell everyone "I told you so" or "you all should have listened to me from the start"?The reason I ask is because I have never seen any one person since FS9 came out, who has taken so much time to first make a prediction and post it on many different forums, then follow thru on his predictions by continually updating the said posts with snips from other non-FS sites as material becomes available, or any other material as it becomes available. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but what are you going to say or do in the end if your right about all this stuff? I guess I just don't understand why it is so important to you for you to put forth the time and energy to do what you do, all with what seems to be the hope that you are right.

Nothing to gain, and I want nothing, and if I am right I will not say "I told you so", I guess I'm just as passionate about Flight as others saying that Flight will be built on a brand new engine from the ground up using DX11 + + +.By the way I always said that I hope I'm wrong because I do want a brand new engine for Flight using everything today's hardware can offer + sceneries compatibility with FSX. From now on lets just wait and see.

Nothing to gain, and I want nothing, and if I am right I will not say "I told you so", I guess I'm just as passionate about Flight as others saying that Flight will be built on a brand new engine from the ground up using DX11 + + +.By the way I always said that I hope I'm wrong because I do want a brand new engine for Flight using everything today's hardware can offer + sceneries compatibility with FSX. From now on lets just wait and see.

Fair enough and thanks for the reply.For some reason I though you would go on a King Kong style chest thumping mission when all was said and done if you were right about all the stuff you said. :(

Sure there is a good chance there will be a online store for FLIGHT addons that is hosted by MS, but I really doubt for one thing, that they will make all the addons

I think he means that Microsoft will be taking a percentage of all Flight addons sold. A bit like the console market, where they get a slice of the pie for each Xbox 360 game sold. If that turns out to be true, then be prepared for addon prices to rise.

I think he means that Microsoft will be taking a percentage of all Flight addons sold. A bit like the console market, where they get a slice of the pie for each Xbox 360 game sold. If that turns out to be true, then be prepared for addon prices to rise.

Not necessarily. Add-ons might get more publicity so sales might increase and subsequently the price could be lower.

I always like to look at the other side of the coin and see what can make sense, so lets start with the devs. side of the coin, what is the biggest threat to them $ wise... piracy, so if I put myself in their shoes I'll try to find a way to make piracy a thing of the past as much as possible and I'll talk to MS about it to see if we can reach a agreement that will please both side.As a dev. it does make sense to sell my Flight's addons to only one store, a lot easyer to control and I don't have to sign contracts with a lot of distributors.Now if I look at MS side of the coin, knowing MS did not make any money from the sales of FSX addons what will convince them to built Flight after closing Aces, I mean Aces was already up and running right? but the thing is that they would have not make money by patching FSX, so to me a piece of the pie will surely make them take another look at building a new sim. don't you think?So adding everything together = this (to me), MS decided to build Flight after striking a deal with the devs., MS open a market store and sale addons for Flight by taking a % on the sale of each addons OR paying the dev. up front for their work and reselling addons in their store under MS banner, in my eyes the last solution is a better deal for the devs. because they don't have to worry about piracy since they got their money up front so they just have to let MS deal with piracy. A virtual world controlled by MS will in my eyes make sense if they want to reach a wider audience (moms and dads), regular folks won't have to tweak or get into deep software problems, plug and paly type of sim. for them. That is why (to me) FSX addons will not be compatible with Flight (also signed contract with existing distributors). My 2 cents.