Weather Radar

[AirbusCG 52]

Hello,I have had a through thoughts about a Weather Radar. I'd like someone who knows much about programming in FSX to comment about this.As PMDG has stated very often moddeling a WX Radar in FSX is not possible. But I'm asking myself why.I know that the FS itself must get its information about the clouds from somewhere. I think this is done using variables which tell it about the position, the size & the type of the cloud. So it should be possible to read those information for an external program too. So why isn't it possible to use these information to create a weather radar?The other informations which are necessary for a weather radar like windshear or rain must be somewhere, because otherwise FSX show it.Do you see what I mean? Those information must be somewhere and the flightsim must have the possibility to read those informations. So it should be possible to make a precisly working WX radar, or do I have a fault in my thinkings somewhere? Please correct me if I'm worng about that.And with all that, could someone of the PMDG team please explain why it isn't possible to make a weather radar yet? Some tecnical information why not would be welcome.

[mcbellette 145]

This topic has been literally beaten to death. Do a search and you should find your answer...

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

This topic has been literally beaten to death. Do a search and you should find your answer...

+100000In case you dont want to search the answer is:NO, NO, NO, and NO, they will not do it becuase it cant properly be done.And, that is their final answer..Sean Cmapbell

[ajpongress 467]

Real Wx radar measures variables such as rain density.FSX doesn't model that, so you'll never get a "precisely working Wx radar."I'm no expert, but I think all you can do is have FSX tell an addon if a station identifier is reporting rain in it's ATIS, and the addon simulates rain on the radar display depending on the coverage of the station's weather boundries.Things like the exact location of rain and it's shape/coverage, wind shears creating different "gradients" within rain indicating turbulence, and exact positions of rain producing clouds isn't possible because of the limitations of FSX.Since PMDG states they strive for 100% realism, putting in a "fake" Wx radar system that doesn't correctly model rain isn't worth the extra development time or effort.What they COULD do, is allow addons like the Reality XP Wx500 to be integrated into the NFD using the NGX SDK.Will they? Probably not, because they wouldn't service or troubleshoot unsupported modifications like that. Then again, maybe they will and just put a disclaimer saying if you break it, you have to clean it up yourself.

[teropa 4]

I am sure that if MS Flight's weather engine gets improvements, this will be one of them. PMDG will have the channels to bring forward suggestions such as this one, to make creation of Wx radar possible.If it's technically feasible and doable by MS vs. "payback", they'll do it. If the data will be there, then extracting it from FS to a simulated Wx Radar will not be impossible at all. It's just stuff in - stuff out :).Tero

[AirbusCG 52]

Guys, you got me wrong. I don't ask for a weather radar in the NGX. I just want to know why it's not possible. You can get my reasons why I don't beleave in what's stated already from my first post. As said, FSX must get its informations from somewhere and so why isn't it possible to read this out?

[asdf987 0]

It IS possible to get cloud location data - this is where a lot of "weather radars" get their information. However, weather radars don't show you where the clouds are - you can see them anyway, so what's the point? What you DO want to know though, it where the RAIN (or other precipitation) is, as this gives you an idea of areas where the shear is stronger (and potentially dangerous) and where icing is more likely. Also - just because it is IN there somewhere, doesn't mean it is accessible. Sure, you could try and directly read memory address, etc., but this is poor practice and is a great way to get anti-virus programs to go crazy.Cheers,Nick Jones

[AirbusCG 52]

Also - just because it is IN there somewhere, doesn't mean it is accessible. Sure, you could try and directly read memory address, etc., but this is poor practice and is a great way to get anti-virus programs to go crazy.Cheers,Nick Jones

That comes closer to the information I'm looking for. But what I don't understand is why this data isn't accasseble. I mean, FSX had access to this data and so it should be possible for other programms. And if that means that I have to tell my anti virus programm that it can ignore this programm than that isn't a disaster. Better than than not having an WX radar at all.So my question still remains: Why isn't it possible to use those datas? Maybe someone from the PMDG team can answer my question, cause I think they have surely spend hours to try and make a working weatherradar, although it didn't work in the end.RegardsEmanuel Hagen

[kevinh 409]

My take on this is there are plenty of things in a simulation which aren't realistic, but added for immersive effect. This applies to commercial full flight simulators just as much as PC flightsims. Weather radar has been mandatory for decades, so a representative weather radar display, including test patterns, is a positive immersive feature. It doesn't really matter whether the storm cells are correctly and accurately located, because FSX's weather is never going to be severe enough to be a danger. Other features, such as ground returns, can be implemented accurately.FSX does generate storm clouds as well as fluffy white clouds, presumably these can be identified by the add-on?Basically it's a form of additional eye candy which would please many customers and I don't see why PMDG are so hard over against including it. Anyone expecting to use it as a realistic tool will be disappointed, but that isn't the point. Having used weather radar simulations with other add-ons I honestly feel they have no negative effects and provide increased immersion and a more complete experience.Kevin Hall

[ExNusquam 11]

FSX does generate storm clouds as well as fluffy white clouds, presumably these can be identified by the add-on?

That's the issue, FS storm clouds don't necessarily contain precip. PMDG arrived at the decision years ago that a WXR wasn't needed for full immersion. They aren't going to change in the near future. Live with it.

[AirbusCG 52]

Guys, please don't let this turn in a "But I want to have a weather radar" thread. I have just asked for the tecnical information why and thought I may have some solutions how it might work. But please don't let this old discussion come up again.That's not what I want to reach with this thread.

[kevinh 409]

That's the issue, FS storm clouds don't necessarily contain precip. PMDG arrived at the decision years ago that a WXR wasn't needed for full immersion. They aren't going to change in the near future. Live with it.

I'd be quite happy with that answer if it wasn't for the dismissive "Live with it". I know I'll have to live with it, I don't need you to tell me. I was merely expressing an opinion.Kevin Hall

[Graubart 3]

Hi Emi,you are somehow mistaken:

FSX had access to this data

FSX got NO access to this data! FSX and tools like ASE work with normal METAR data and these data don't tell you anything about what's happening within a cloud. And these data gathered via radar are not part of the METAR and therefore not available to FSX. So everything what you see on so called WX in some FSX products is just fake.You can check this very simple: All weather data reports are provided in most cases from airports or stations. IF you fly in FSX with real weather in a local area with a lot of weather stations, everything is fine. But as soon as you make longer trips with e.g. a distance of 150nm where no stations are, weather in FSX looks somehow strange as it will be interpolated somehow. And as the world is not covered 100% by weather stations, WX in real life makes sense to tell pilots what's about the clouds ahead.

[DAD 2,653]

What they COULD do, is allow addons like the Reality XP Wx500 to be integrated into the NFD using the NGX SDK.

+1, this is the least I would ask for; I got the wx500 just for the integration with the js41 and love the IMO enhanced immersion when flying through or around clouds. and since they stressed the JS41 was the testbed for the ngx... well, I guess this would be one of my biggest wishes or rather surprises for the ngx. besides the pogo stick, of course

[asdf987 0]

That comes closer to the information I'm looking for. But what I don't understand is why this data isn't accasseble. I mean, FSX had access to this data and so it should be possible for other programms. And if that means that I have to tell my anti virus programm that it can ignore this programm than that isn't a disaster. Better than than not having an WX radar at all.So my question still remains: Why isn't it possible to use those datas? Maybe someone from the PMDG team can answer my question, cause I think they have surely spend hours to try and make a working weatherradar, although it didn't work in the end.RegardsEmanuel Hagen

It is very poor practice to be hacking apart programs, not to mention the legal issues surrounding this.Also, you don't know for sure that FSX actually has this data. Shear and rain may simply be probability based events. Even if this data existed, there is no guarantee that you would be able to find it.Cheers,Nick Jones