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Petraeus

Ultimate Traffic II - disappearing airlines

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People who have chosen to use Ultimate Traffic II have often done so because they want to see traffic that matches the real world as closely as possible. Across the world, we saw planes in the skies and the airports that matched real world traffic in terms of airlines, flight times, liveries, even flight numbers. The only airlines missing were those who did not publish schedules - some cargo airlines and tour charter operators. However, what is now happening as Flight 1 release successive seasonal schedules, is that more airlines are disappearing, but customers are not being told. It first happened with the Summer 2011 schedule and Ryanair. Suddenly this major European carrier disappeared from Dublin, London Stansted, and dozens of other airports *. Now in the Fall 2011 schedule, it's the turn of the USA, with the disappearance of JetBlue. Except you have to spot it yourself, because they don't tell you. Now Flight 1's problems are understandable, and I have no great argument with them. If the airlines no longer sell seats through retail outlets, then Flight 1 can't get hold of published schedules. (There are other ways of working out what the schedule is, that are not rocket science, but let's leave that for the moment.) What does however bother me is that Flight 1 don't tell anyone about the impending demise of these airlines - customers are left to discover it for themselves. They are then presented with these three options: 1. Check the list of airlines for the new schedule, and see what's missing. Fine, if you want to do a side-by-side comparison of two lists of about 800 airlines. 2. Add the missing airline using sources such as World of AI. Fine, but not a task for the faint-hearted. 3. Get a refund. A very praiseworthy feature of sales from Flight 1, but in a sense an admission of failure and customer dissatisfaction. I have otherwise a very high regard for Flight 1, its products and its business practices. But in this isolated instance I think they are letting themselves down badly. Customers moving on to the next seasonal schedule suddenly, without warning, find huge gaps in their AI airline traffic. We're not talking about Bongo-Bongo Air and its two DC9's going missing somewhere hardly anybody flies. We're talking about the instant disappearance of two major airlines, and entire terminals at Dublin or JFK turning into ghost towns. So, Flight 1, do your customers a favour. If the data is no longer available, tell your customers when a big airline might vanish from the skies. That way, customers can decide whether to install the new schedule and stay current but lose them, or not to install, to keep these airlines, but remain frozen in time. * (No great loss, some may feel. Ryanair seem jealously to guard their reputation as the 'UK's most hated airline'. They took the Southwest low-cost model and injected new depths of meanness. Like trying to charge a disabled passenger for wheeling him out to the plane. And they are seriously talking about charging for the use of the toilet, so they can remove some and squeeze in more seats. And if you're going to name an airline after yourself, it's really better to be a likeable person, Freddy Laker for example. However, like Ryanair or not, they do fly all over the place, and we do see lots of their planes around).


Petraeus

 

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Why are you posting this here and not on flight one's UT forums?Schedule issues are explained on their forum and I am wondering why you wish to badger Flight1 on a non Flight1 board.

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I agree. I think there is a village somwhere missing there idiot.
Personal attacks are always a sign that people have nothing worthwhile to say on the topic itself. And when trying to insult someone's intelligence, it's a good idea to show that you can at least spell correctly. To get back to the topic, I and other customers have already raised this in their sub-forum - their response is summarised above. There are many in the community who may plan to buy a new UTII schedule, and not be aware of the consequences, because they don't visit that particular sub-forum. I only went to that sub-forum when I arrived (virtually) at JFK and was surprised to find no JetBlue there.

Petraeus

 

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Guest Turboblower
Personal attacks are always a sign that people have nothing worthwhile to say on the topic itself.
Just like you have done here to Flight 1. You better hurry, the bus leaves in 10 mins

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I agree. I think there blah blah personal attacks
-<MOD> No need for that.

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Guest jahman
...And if you're going to name an airline after yourself, it's really better to be a likeable person, Freddy Laker for example. However, like Ryanair or not, they do fly all over the place, and we do see lots of their planes around).
An interesting comparison: For being nice Sir Freddie went bankrupt, while Mr. Ryan gets the public to reward his meanness with profits! Cheers, - jahman.

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An interesting comparison: For being nice Sir Freddie went bankrupt, while Mr. Ryan gets the public to reward his meanness with profits! Cheers, - jahman.
Yes, an illustration of the "Nice guys don't win" saying. Although Sir Freddie did later turn "nasty", and successfully sued a number of his competitors for predatory pricing. He won $50m, which paid off the Laker Airways debts, and also won a personal £8m for his troubles. Incidentally, JetBlue is a particularly unfortunate airline to lose from the UTII schedules. Here is the graphic from the startup screen, and those three planes are from which airline....?

Petraeus

 

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Petraeus, Just to clear some things up... 1) The pic you show above is a UI pic that was taken from the original build so yes Jet Blue is still in there for the majority of users. Only about 10-15% of our users pick up the additional schedule packs. 2) As you mentioned, schedules are totally dependent on airlines reporting to our data source. If Ryanair decided not to report these, then we have no control over what they decide to do. There is a reason we included a seperate utility for adding your own schedules and assigning your own aircraft. There are several sources on the net for you to "regain" Ryanair if you want to do it. 3) Our 30 day refund policy gives you the choice to return the product if you are not happy with it. I don't quite understand the rant here as we offer many solutions whether it be some additional work on your part or a full refund on ours. 4) I will see if we can possibly provide airline lists on future releases, but I wouldn't count on it as we are already selling these data packs at minimum price point and dev time is at a premium these days.


Jeff Smith
Sales / Product Support
Flight One Software
'Like' Us on Facebook / Follow us on Twitter / My Blog - Being Reorganized

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4) I will see if we can possibly provide airline lists on future releases, but I wouldn't count on it as we are already selling these data packs at minimum price point and dev time is at a premium these days.
I think the point is the OP understands that the data may change. He just wants to know if a major airline is missing from the update so people can make an informed choice before they buy. Even with the refund, it is still a pain if you want to revert to a older database or upgrade to a newer database. Your assignments can get pretty messed up when you update schedules - that's why I rarely update schedules. To make things easy, you could provide a list of every airline included (which I think you already do) AND the number of legs that airline has in the new schedule. Sort the list in descending order by legs. Now, a customer can see all of the included airlines from largest to smallest which would make it easier for someone to spot an omission.

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... assignments can get pretty messed up when you update schedules - that's why I rarely update schedules.
I've never updated my schedule for that reason and the fact that I dont know what airlines might be missing in the newer schedule. As much time as I have spent getting the assignements and everything else the way I want, I have basically been to scared to even mess with changing schedule frankly.

Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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Yeah Jeff... Understood his point he was trying convey. Which is why I repeated some of the items he mentioned. As I said, I will see if we can offer this as a possibility in the future. BTW... The easiest way to restore the older files is use the backups within the folder. You simple remove the .ut2 extension database files and then rename the .old to .ut2. Also, we do have a list of airlines available via the support forum. Check the announcements at the the top of licensed support. http://ultimatetraff...hedule-released


Jeff Smith
Sales / Product Support
Flight One Software
'Like' Us on Facebook / Follow us on Twitter / My Blog - Being Reorganized

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I'm glade I didn't upgrade my schedule I would have been really upset with Jetblue missisng lesson learned, and thank you Petraeus for bringing this to are attention. Jeff if possible you should also put that on the http://ut2.flight1.net/i website there are some people that don't check the forums. but I wouldn't mind paying more if that means more airlines.


Cesar Martinez

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Product support has always been in the forums. This includes the supplements for downloads. I will look into adding the list at the UT2 main site.


Jeff Smith
Sales / Product Support
Flight One Software
'Like' Us on Facebook / Follow us on Twitter / My Blog - Being Reorganized

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Product support has always been in the forums. This includes the supplements for downloads. I will look into adding the list at the UT2 main site.
Thank's Jeff I figure some folks don't check the forums much.

Cesar Martinez

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3. Get a refund. A very praiseworthy feature of sales from Flight 1, but in a sense an admission of failure and customer dissatisfaction.
That's IMO an unfair and wrong statement.

Best regards,
David Roch

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