Sad to see a visionary go, although his legacy not all shiny apples! http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs Mark.

Sad to see a visionary go, although his legacy not all shiny apples! http://gawker.com/58...bout-steve-jobs Mark.

I don't understand. I KNOW that that would've happened if he died. There is always ONE person that complains, and says that pretty much he's a "bad person to the public". Unacceptable.

I disagree. Everyone has warts of one sort or another. Steve Jobs was not a plaster Saint. He was a truly remarkable person without question, but like everyone else on this planet, he had his share of shortcomings.

Yup, there is no doubt that Steve Jobs did a lot of cool and admirable stuff, and I'm glad he did in most respects, but pointing out that Apple favours cheap exploitative labour to bring the prices of Apple's stuff down is most certainly not ''unacceptable''. If nobody talks about poor practices, they are likely to continue, moreover, such practices don't exactly do much to assist in creating domestic jobs. It is estimated that we are heading for a situation where around 90 percent of manufactured goods will be made in China within the next twenty years, which will doubtless make them cheap, but as cheap as they will be, we probably won't be able to afford them, since we will all have no jobs, Steve, or otherwise. Al

Great man. RIP. nebojsa

Sad to see a visionary go, although his legacy not all shiny apples! http://gawker.com/58...bout-steve-jobs Mark.

This seems to be a common thing for great men with the exception being people like Bill Gates. I look at Prince who I've been around quite a bit up here in Minnesota over the years. This man is in the Rock and Roll hall of fame and judging by the many interviews he's done since 1996 (when he was in financial trouble thanks to his snub of Warner Brothers) you'd think he was the nicest most humble man around. This man is destine to go down in history as one of the greatest musicians that ever lived and rightly so. Seeing this guy perform in real life is amazing, way above anyone else and if you don't believe me look up his shows on YouTube. Now if we go with the real person up close and personal Prince is a man that will not speak to regular people, treats everyone outside of his band (employees included) like crap, and has black listed many people who challenged him over the years. I couldn't believe the real person versus the stage presence when I first went around Paisley Park in 1994. He would make people sign confidentiality agreements because maybe even he knew the treatment sucked yet word still got out about him (there's a book called "Possessed, the Rise and Fall of Prince" that's backs up allot of what I'm saying although he's pulled out of his slump big time now). It's known over the years he's one of the hardest people to work for in the industry. For those that are into his music will remember his banning of all his videos on YouTube (the only artist to do so as many of them know YouTube is a great free marketing/publicity outlet). That whole stance didn't work that well and the fans won, just the same fans got a taste what only people close to him have known for years. To take a page out of Christmas Carol I remember a friend of mine who worked for him was with his family on Christmas Day having dinner and got a call from Prince. There was no hello or anything just a cold request to come into the studio at once forsaking anything going on with his family. My friend who is a sound engineer had to go. Another thing that got me was Prince would make fans wait hours in January cold (-15 below zero at times not counting wind chill) outside of his studio for a midnight show. The way his studio is configured he could have let the less than 100 people come in to the atrium to keep warm until he decided to start playing. I got sick of that game real quick as even some of the staff couldn't get in. Those shows I passed on... Another friend working in his club out in LA (Glam Slam) back in 1994 fell while setting up props on stage was sent by Prince to the cheapest county hospital he could find. Despite 15 stitches he was promptly told to return to work to finish the job or risk being stuck in LA with no way to get home and no paycheck for his work (Prince was notorious for not paying people). There was no concern by Prince as to the condition of his staff just a 12+ hour shift to get his stage setup for his show. Reading these things about Jobs reminded me allot of Prince. One last thing that stood out to me that was really a trip was when 9/11 hit and everyone was offering support Prince didn't even so much as offer up condolences on his website at the time. This might not sound like that big of a deal but it was interesting to me. I hear he's doing Charity events now but you have to understand the marketing game of the music industry and public image. If he wasn't in need of maintaining his stature outside of the major record label stable (he's an independent artist now) he would be the same old Prince who never did anything for anyone outside of his self. Prince never reached out to anything here in Minnesota over the years until he was an independent artist who needed to scratch others backs to get his own scratched. People too often give entertainers a pass because of who they are and/or they don't know the real deal or conveniently forget. Prince ran Paisley Park Studios in the same vain that this article depicts Steve Jobs. I have many stories and personal experiences that I can draw from. Life isn't fare they say and it's a shame people like this are given so much talent and prestige in life yet make so many people's life hell for their own benifit. Prince and Steve Jobs have gave us outstanding product over the years whether it be music or technology. But both can be a nightmare to deal with in real life if you either work for them or not on their level in their field. Like the song says, "If you want to be Rich, you've got to be a B*&CH". Say what you want about Bill Gates, you have to give the man credit for looking back at the rest of the world with genuine compassion and giving back not for a tax break (or other underlying reasons) but to truly help out those less fortunate than he's been in his life.

Oops, double post...

... A neighbour, Lisen: While Newsweek and the Wall Street Journal and CNET continue to drone on about the impact of the Steve Jobs era, I won’t be pondering the MacBook Air I write on or the iPhone I talk on. I will think of the day I saw him at his son’s high school graduation. There Steve stood, tears streaming down his cheeks, his smile wide and proud, as his son received his diploma and walked on into his own bright future, leaving behind a good man and a good father who can be sure of the rightness of this, perhaps his most important legacy of all.

Oh, how utterly touching! I wonder if he felt the same way the day his daughter Lisa Brennan graduated, given for years he refused to acknowledge paternity, swearing in court documents that he could not be Lisa's father because he was "sterile and infertile, and as a result thereof, did not have the physical capacity to procreate a child." I bet he had to recant after fathering tree children with his wife! Given that he himself was adopted, not recognizing his daughter shows a really mean streak in his personality. But I digress... Cheers, -jahman.

How cynical, jahman. Did you finish reading the wikipedia page you linked to? because I did: "Eventually Jobs acknowledged paternity. He later married Laurene Powell and fathered three more children.^[1] Brennan-Jobs later reconnected with her father; she lived with him for a few years in her teens, and he paid for her to go to Harvard University, where she cultivated her interest in writing.^[3]" It's not all as gloomy as you now so willingly seem to portray. Doesn't say how the story actually ends of course, but it seems they made up in some sort of way. Nor does it say in what order he acknowledged paternity and married Laurene, for what I get out of the wiki article, he first acknowledged paternity, and then married Laurene. So, this theory of yours that he recanted because of laurene and the children, can be thrown out the window immediately. Sorry to ask, but I'm really curious: why this sudden burst of outrage?

Benjamin let's get this straight, he finally acknowledged paternity of the first child after years of denial, married another woman who was not his first daughters mother, and accepted those children. What's so 'saintly' about this scenario? Apparently there was an issue between him and the first mother and he cared less an innocent child was involved. In the end it's good he took responsibility but just the same how he acted originally to his first child says allot about him. We all know how things can go south two parties but a man needs to step up to the plate with his children because they didn't ask to be here. I wonder how long after he was involved with the second mother and their three kids did he finally come around to accepting his first daughter. I'd be willing to bet his second wife Laurene interceded in bringing Steve Jobs around to accepting his first child. Women can have a great influence in this area both ways. Most feel other children are a threat to their own while some women want a relationship with all the children on both sides. We'll never know how this played out but in the end Steve did the right thing for whatever reason.

Benjamin let's get this straight, he finally acknowledged paternity of the first child after years of denial, married another woman who was not his first daughters mother, and accepted those children. What's so 'saintly' about this scenario? Apparently there was an issue between him and the first mother and he cared less an innocent child was involved. In the end it's good he took responsibility but just the same how he acted originally to his first child says allot about him. We all know how things can go south two parties but a man needs to step up to the plate with his children because they didn't ask to be here. I wonder how long after he was involved with the second mother and their three kids did he finally come around to accepting his first daughter. I'd be willing to bet his second wife Laurene interceded in bringing Steve Jobs around to accepting his first child. Women can have a great influence in this area both ways. Most feel other children are a threat to their own while some women want a relationship with all the children on both sides. We'll never know how this played out but in the end Steve did the right thing for whatever reason.

Keep in mind the mind (and therefore personality) can change immensely with a little age.

How cynical, jahman. Did you finish reading the wikipedia page you linked to? because I did: "Eventually Jobs acknowledged paternity. He later married Laurene Powell and fathered three more children. Brennan-Jobs later reconnected with her father; she lived with him for a few years in her teens, and he paid for her to go to Harvard University, where she cultivated her interest in writing."

Oh, I guess then "all's well that ends well." Well, in my book, if you hurt someone, especially your child (and if you lie about not being the father you do hurt your child), you are a jerk.

It's not all as gloomy as you now so willingly seem to portray. Doesn't say how the story actually ends of course, but it seems they made up in some sort of way. Nor does it say in what order he acknowledged paternity and married Laurene, for what I get out of the wiki article, he first acknowledged paternity, and then married Laurene. So, this theory of yours that he recanted because of laurene and the children, can be thrown out the window immediately. Sorry to ask, but I'm really curious: why this sudden burst of outrage?

Because denying your child's paternity, especially when you yourself are adopted, is nothing short of truly, truly outrageous. Sorry to tar your idol! BTW, I am glad for his daughter and her mother that Stevo finally fessed up.

Benjamin let's get this straight, he finally acknowledged paternity of the first child after years of denial, married another woman who was not his first daughters mother, and accepted those children. What's so 'saintly' about this scenario? Apparently there was an issue between him and the first mother and he cared less an innocent child was involved. In the end it's good he took responsibility but just the same how he acted originally to his first child says allot about him. We all know how things can go south two parties but a man needs to step up to the plate with his children because they didn't ask to be here. I wonder how long after he was involved with the second mother and their three kids did he finally come around to accepting his first daughter. I'd be willing to bet his second wife Laurene interceded in bringing Steve Jobs around to accepting his first child. Women can have a great influence in this area both ways. Most feel other children are a threat to their own while some women want a relationship with all the children on both sides. We'll never know how this played out but in the end Steve did the right thing for whatever reason.

+1, can't really add anything to your excellent post :-) Cheers, - jahman.

Benjamin let's get this straight, he finally acknowledged paternity of the first child after years of denial, married another woman who was not his first daughters mother, and accepted those children. What's so 'saintly' about this scenario? Apparently there was an issue between him and the first mother and he cared less an innocent child was involved. In the end it's good he took responsibility but just the same how he acted originally to his first child says allot about him. We all know how things can go south two parties but a man needs to step up to the plate with his children because they didn't ask to be here. I wonder how long after he was involved with the second mother and their three kids did he finally come around to accepting his first daughter. I'd be willing to bet his second wife Laurene interceded in bringing Steve Jobs around to accepting his first child. Women can have a great influence in this area both ways. Most feel other children are a threat to their own while some women want a relationship with all the children on both sides. We'll never know how this played out but in the end Steve did the right thing for whatever reason.

I never said he was a saint, not sure then why you ask me about the "saintitude" of the scenario. The Wikipedia page is rather vague about what exactly happened and in what order, that's what I'm saying, so making assumptions on what is said there seems unreasonable to a degree. I agree with the rest you say, and all I wanted to point out to jahman was that he did end up accepting paternity and, for as far as I can tell from the Wikipedia page, they seem to have gotten together in some way, hopefully a more friendly than hostile way. Doesn't mean that refusing paternity in the way he did is good of course. He must have had some sort of reason to do it, and I can only feel sorry for Lisa, which is why I'm happy that made up (in whatever way they did). Better too late than never, right? jahman, PM sent.

I never said he was a saint, not sure then why you ask me about the "saintitude" of the scenario. The Wikipedia page is rather vague about what exactly happened and in what order, that's what I'm saying, so making assumptions on what is said there seems unreasonable to a degree. I agree with the rest you say, and all I wanted to point out to jahman was that he did end up accepting paternity and, for as far as I can tell from the Wikipedia page, they seem to have gotten together in some way, hopefully a more friendly than hostile way. Doesn't mean that refusing paternity in the way he did is good of course. He must have had some sort of reason to do it, and I can only feel sorry for Lisa, which is why I'm happy that made up (in whatever way they did). Better too late than never, right? jahman, PM sent.

The problem is you keep talking about him and not about his daughter, so you still don't see what he did. Lying to your child that you are not its father is pretty heinous in itself, and doing so after having personal experience with adoption is even worse, because you are well aware of the effects of your actions. Children growing up need the love and support of both their parents, so the fact that he later recognized his daughter doesn't make-up for the many years he didn't support her emotionally or even financially. Sheesh, her mother had to go on welfare for the first two years of her life, while Stevo was busy heading-up Apple with all the World admiring him. How lonely it must have felt for her and her mother... Do you ever think about this? To close this echange, compare and contrast:

...A neighbour, Lisen: While Newsweek and the Wall Street Journal and CNET continue to drone on about the impact of the Steve Jobs era, I won’t be pondering the MacBook Air I write on or the iPhone I talk on. I will think of the day I saw him at his son’s high school graduation. There Steve stood, tears streaming down his cheeks, his smile wide and proud, as his son received his diploma and walked on into his own bright future, leaving behind a good man and a good father who can be sure of the rightness of this, perhaps his most important legacy of all.

And you call me cynical... Cheers, - jahman. Thralni, PM read and replied in this post. All your PM questions are answered in my posts in this thread.

Had I known these things, I might have reacted differently to what this neighbour wrote, and in hindsight it does seem hypocritical. However, I doubt that she knew any more of this than I did, and from what she wrote, he seemed a loving father. I do not know why he did what he did - I guess he was scared of fathering a child at such a young age (which is an understandable yet wicked reason). Two years later he did acknowledge being her father, though, so the theory of "he met Laurene and then had to acknowlegde being her father" can't be true. Anyway, I'm talking about him again, so let me focus on her for a bit. You are right in saying that lying to your child about you being its father is terrible, and as I said, I sympathise. Still, even though that happened, she seemed to have a good relationship with her father in her teens and beyond. That's what she sort of says herself, anyway (they went on vacations together, she even moved in with him for a couple of years). I'm happy that that's the outcome of the story - it happens so often that both parties never want to see each other anymore. I can only guess that "Stevo" saw his mistake and corrected it to Lisa's satisfaction. I personally think that this is the most important part of the story; not the part where he refuses paternity, but the part where they make up and are happy together. As I said, better too late than never, right?