Oktober News

[turner112 52]

"Here's a fact for you then: it's a fact that there is no Avsim rule which says forum discussions have to be limited to facts." Al - thanks! Whew... I can stop re-reading the rules now. ;) I'd like to submit a suggestion: each person's avatar has a little grayed-out button below it titled "FP VOTE". FP, of course, stands for "Forum Police". Any other forum member can vote - once. At a predetermined number of votes, the button goes red and flashes, and the member is restricted from posting in any forum but 中文模擬飛行論壇. (If the forum member happens to be an active poster in that forum, they must read and be tested on each commercial product review posted since 2009.) Wait... am I being FP?

[mgh 89]

But that supposes one can only either post factual or non factual information, however that's not true, since one can also post opinions, suggestions, positive and negative criticisms, jokes or any number of other things worthy of inclusion in discussion that are neither fact nor fiction. Which is why it grinds my gears when people start trying to play forum police and suggest that the moderators are not doing their jobs properly if anyone indulges in a bit of levity or takes a guess at what might be forthcoming from MS. In fact the moderators are doing a great job by not jumping on such stuff, and that is something which is greatly under appreciated by many, especially wannabe moderators with nothing better to do than to whine about people using a social community forum for what it is supposed to be used for, i.e. being sociable. Al

You made his point for him!

[Chock 17,769]

so why do you ban people when the argument is related to some of your "commercial members" (see Orbx)?

I don't ban anyone, I'm not a moderator any more than you are and so I can't ban anyone. In fact, about the only thing I can do that is different to regular Avsim forum members is to access a few hidden staff forums and put messages like [alert] this [/alert] if I feel it is necessary to do so. But should you mean ''you' as in Avsim, if you think my comments on this thread mean that I completely agree with everything every moderator has ever done on Avsim, then you'd be wrong. Then again, it is up to the moderators, who are almost certainly privy to more info than me, so my opinions on such matters may not be as informed as I might suppose. What regular Avsim members don't see when they log in, is several staff forums where various Avsim staff can consult with one another, and of course there is the PM system too, so you should not suppose that if you see someone get banned, that the whole story is played out in public, and if you also imagine that Avsim staff and commercial devs are immune, then you'd be wrong on that score too. I know this because I've had cautions from moderators on occasion for things I've put in the forums in the past too! In fact, you probably have more freedom to say what you like than either Avsim staff or commercial developers, both of whom are bound by a considerably stricter set of forum rules than regular forum members have to adhere to, but you should not make the mistake of assuming this means regular members can say anything at all which they like on Avsim without attracting some attention from moderators, since like every other forum there is on the 'net, membership comes with some responsibilities and rules to follow. You will notice that there are things you can do too if you feel something is amiss with a post, and that includes posts from moderators. For example there is a 'report' button on each thread, which you can submit a comment on, and that will bring the matter which concerns you to the attention of all moderators, so you are not living in some kind of draconian space where you are subject to a set of mystery rules which only work against you, the forum moderators can help you too you know, and you can help them! Like you and I, moderators are only human, they can make mistakes on occasion just as you and I can, and it is not completely unknown for a moderator's decision to have been rescinded because of that. Moderators have a tough and thankless task for the most part, since any time they step in, by definition someone's feathers will get ruffled, but believe it or not, they are not your enemy. Al

[albx 17]

I don't ban anyone, I'm not a moderator any more than you are and so I can't ban anyone. In fact, about the only thing I can do that is different to regular Avsim forum members is to put messages like [alert] this [/alert]. But should you mean ''you' as in Avsim, if you think my comments on this thread mean that I completely agree with everything every moderator has ever done on Avsim, then you'd be wrong. Then again, it is up to the moderators, who are almost certainly privy to more info than me, so my opinions on such matters may not be as informed as I might suppose. What regular Avsim members don't see when they log in, is several staff forums where various Avsim staff can consult with one another, and of course there is the PM system too, so you should not suppose that if you see someone get banned, that the whole story is played out in public, and if you also imagine that Avsim staff and commercial devs are immune, then you'd be wrong on that score too. I know this because I've had cautions from moderators on occasion for things I've put in the forums in the past too! Al

sorry, the YOU was refered to the moderators. I'm disappointed because some years ago this forum was nice to read, but right now I think it is gone in a way that it's not funny anymore... Seems like a distinction where the "special members" can say anything and if they don't like sometbody a mod come and punish a simple member. I don't want say that everytime is like that, but seems this to me. I don't like that commercial members are "pissing" on Flight because they are not involved and try to drive customers to other products. Speculations? I don't know and I don't care, the only thing I care is that when (or if) flight will come out I'll buy it, also if no addons will be available from third parts.

[alainneedle1 97]

sorry, the YOU was refered to the moderators. I'm disappointed because some years ago this forum was nice to read, but right now I think it is gone in a way that it's not funny anymore... Seems like a distinction where the "special members" can say anything and if they don't like sometbody a mod come and punish a simple member. I don't want say that everytime is like that, but seems this to me. I don't like that commercial members are "pissing" on Flight because they are not involved and try to drive customers to other products. Speculations? I don't know and I don't care, the only thing I care is that when (or if) flight will come out I'll buy it, also if no addons will be available from third parts.

In all fairness I have to agree with you on some of what you are saying, I will not go as far as saying that commercial members are "pissing" on Flight (they are ###### for sure) but what's good for the goose is not good for the gander all the time here at Avsim and here is a good example... http://forum.avsim.n...ct-please-read/ Quote" Gents, From now we won't allow any more comment on the legal aspect of Prepar3D. Discussing here about the deal between Microsoft and Lockheed Martin without any basis is useless and sterile.Avsim is not a lawyer school and all those groundless speculations and comments are inappropriate and out of place here. Thanks to John Nicol, we have a fantastic opportunity to interfacing with LM developers, we shouldn't waste it because of legal stuff that isn't in our hands.Thanks for understanding.================================================================================= How many time did we discussed Flight (MS) in a way that a mod. (or David) could have said that Avsim is not a lawyer school or David could have also said that Discussing here about the deal between Microsoft and 3rd party developers without any basis is useless and sterile.or a lot of post were based on a lot of groundless speculations and comments were inappropriate and out of place here...... How come we did not see any "Legal aspect post please read" by David about Flight......

so why do you ban people when the argument is related to some of your "commercial members" (see Orbx)?

Beats me......not really...

[Chock 17,769]

sorry, the YOU was refered to the moderators. I'm disappointed because some years ago this forum was nice to read, but right now I think it is gone in a way that it's not funny anymore... Seems like a distinction where the "special members" can say anything and if they don't like sometbody a mod come and punish a simple member.

The forum members of Avsim are the life blood of Avsim - you and I are Avsim - and so it should be apparent that it would be foolish of Avsim to have a policy which targeted the very thing which makes it live and breathe, which is why Avsim does not have such a policy. They really don't, in fact there are some developers that have really had it stuck to them by Avsim for the way they have behaved, so if you imagine that does not occur, I can tell you for certain that you are mistaken (I'm not going to mention which ones, but trust me, it has happened, I even had a review I was slated to be doing cancelled because of that behaviour by a commercial dev once). If you carefully examine exactly what was said on the thread regarding Orbx and the subsequent ban of a forum member, you will notice that the point which attracted the ire of the moderator was not that someone was disagreeing with a commercial developer's opinion (which is something you can do all day long without fear of anything untoward happening so long as you do it in a courteous way), but rather it was insinuating that developer had broken a EULA/non disclosure agreement and of therefore being untrustworthy because of having done so (and this repeatedly), which is a rather more serious accusation for a business, so it was not some simple case of a little innocent forum member being needlessly crushed by the unstoppable juggernaut wheels of a mighty commercial developer that is immune to any kind of admonishment, and to portray or perceive it as such would be at the very least disingenuous. Al

[Ben Cap 89]

I'd absolutely agree that posting stuff which someone is passing off as fact when it isn't should certainly be discouraged, though it tends to be the case that whenever that happens people will spot it and the forum ends up moderating itself to a large extent as forum members spot suspect claims and are well enough informed to call anyone on it, thus doing the preventing themselves without the need for official moderation. A lot of the time that is what makes for a lively discussion, so long as it remains good natured, and it has to be said that in the absence of any really solid info from MS themselves, the tumbleweed would be blowing through this forum without such things. As ever, what we really could do with is someone from MS to kick out some solid facts about what exactly Flight is going to be, instead of having to rely on rumours from Ten Minute Taxi and the like, but until that happens, speculatory posts in this forum are mostly its raison d'etre. Al

Well said...

[Christopher Low 5,387]

It's still only Hawaii

.....and therefore any suggestion that MS Flight will be released in December 2011 can safely be dismissed as nonsense. In fact, I reckon it will be a lot closer to December 2012.

[JSkorna 137]

+1

[HumzaTheSpartan117 0]

Alright who thinks we should do something to stop microsoft from making it too much of a child's game. If they want to make it a game fine BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STILL MAKE IT A SIM THAT IS REALISTIC AND PROFESSIONAL AND STILL WORKS FOR EVERYONE GOSHHHH!!!! LOL

.....and therefore any suggestion that MS Flight will be released in December 2011 can safely be dismissed as nonsense. In fact, I reckon it will be a lot closer to December 2012.

plus one vote

[Chock 17,769]

To be honest the basic Flight game is likely to be the basic sandpit that FS has always been. Providing there is an SDK whereby a bunch of command calls that add-ons can make to the simulation engine for position and speed data etc is available, and there are spare slots for animation tags etc, then it is far more important that it should run well and have that info available to developers than what features the default aircraft and airports have on day one of its release. In short, as with every other MS flight sim, the thing that matters most is potential, and not what is in the box from the outset. Al

[HumzaTheSpartan117 0]

To be honest the basic Flight game is likely to be the sandpit that FS has always been. Providing there is an SDK whereby a bunch of command calls that add-ons can make to the simulation engine for position and speed data etc is available, and there are spare slots for animation tags etc, then it is far more important that it should run well and have that info available to developers than what features the default aircraft and airports have on day one of its release. In short, as with every other MS flight sim, the thing that matters most is potential, and not what is in the box from the outset. Al

True true true. However I just don't like the idea how they keep stating its going to be a game. As long as PMDG will still be around i'm okay

[Chock 17,769]

Look at it this way, as with every preceding iteration of FS, it's a game if you want it to be, or its a sim if you want it to be. The US Army used two things that are available as PC games for training its soldiers, Full Spectrum Warrior and America's Army, they are games, but they can, and are, used for real training as well. Don't get too hung up on it being called a game, it says ''Games for Windows'' on the FSX DVD box. Al

[HumzaTheSpartan117 0]

Look at it this way, as with every preceding iteration of FS, it's a game if you want it to be, or its a sim if you want it to be. The US Army used two things that are available as PC games for training its soldiers, Full Spectrum Warrior and America's Army, they are games, but they can, and are, used for real training as well. Don't get too hung up on it being called a game, it says ''Games for Windows'' on the FSX DVD box. Al

LOL cool information and true. Yeah but it is fun to sit back and watch the 8 year olds panic "OMG NO A GAME MY PROFESSIONAL PILOT IS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN" But yeah either way it would be difficult to model a realistic sim. I'm pretty sure microsoft stated that they are adding mission for the new commers and it will still have free flight for those of us who like to sit back and fly hard-core style

[january 19]

And my prediction (indubitably correct) - for FLIGHT is: "QUE SERA, SERA" !(with apologies to Doris Day and James Stewart.)AR