I'd agree with you about the UK..In the mountain west of the US it is not uncommon to have unlimited visibiity and to be able to see 100 miles with no Haze-I was just talking to one of my flying budies about navigating to a Western place I am planning on moving to. You simply point your airplane at the lone 11,000 mountain peak about 100-150 miles out-navigation is pretty simple.

Yes, wish we had that sort of visibility in Wales Geofa. 150nm in the Brecon Beacons would be really something. I do envy the scenery you get in parts of the US. You guys are spoiled. :-)Cheers Rhydian

Marty,How about the abrupt visibility changes at 10K where you go from the reported visibility to unlimited, in an instant?

Fair point and needs to be fixed also. IMHO visibility is the killer for mass market penetration though.

The screen shots look fine to me, what screenshots are you refering to ?

If you look at the mountains in the first screenshot the images of mountains in the distance are indistinct and that is caused by volumetric fog. Volumetric fog is not like real fog - it cannot be turned off to create a more natural environment as if it is pop up occurs. Volumetric fog blurs images whereas real fog tends to cover them completely. Plus volumetric fog in x plane 10 only occurs at medium distances where haze should be the influencing factor not fog generally (maybe at the top of mountains siome cloud/fog should appear). Pop up mountains are the worst instance of pop up I have ever seen and remind me of PS1 games.

Gentlemen, may I please, respectfully refer you to a post made by an avsim moderator.Here is a part of his post.This is a forum meant for X-Plane users to discuss X-Plane NOT a forum for other (MSFS) simmers to criticise X-Plane and its users.

I am not criticising x plane users merely the problems with visibility in the game which are well documented and are sadly glossed over a lot of the time.

Those shots are relatively low which will limit (as it should) visibility in both sims. How is XP10 visibility at higher altitudes? In FSX if you clear all clouds at maximum visibility you can see about 170nm. Try it climb up to 20000+ over Vancouver, and see if you can see Mt Rainier. XP9 you can only see 40nm (with clear sky plugin 25nm without). I'd like to see at least 100nm in XP10.

good point well made.

Hi martyneale,Thanks for the comment. Personally, I feel those XP images look pretty accurate when it comes to visibility. On a clear day in the UK I rarely see 'unlimited' visibility on even the brightest of days. It tends to have a hazy look to them even at higher altitudes. I still hark after FS2004 where the representation of visibility looked superb. But FSX seemed to change that (Google it, i dont seem to be alone) Thank God for Pete Dowson's genius program FSUIPC where he has a visibility smoothing option. It's not perfect but it makes it feel more realistic. Couple this with REX and VFR photographic scenery and it looks extremely good. I think the XP10 shots could go someway to enhance that hazy effect. I like they way they have represented it. In XP9 I mostly fly low and slow (Carenado planes are suoerb for this) so perhaps I don't see the popup that you mention, I'll have to give it a try to see what you mean.cheersRhydian

The problem is obvious with a jet and volumetric fog off. Pan the view and...bang the realism is destroyed. Not even the most extravagant fantasy writers generally go for pop up mountains.

@martyneale ... it's probably best to reserve judgment until after 10.0 is released. Ranting about one single screenshot from an alpha build seems grossly unfair at this point.

The problem is obvious with a jet and volumetric fog off. Pan the view and...bang the realism is destroyed. Not even the most extravagant fantasy writers generally go for pop up mountains.

Yes, that's why volumetric fog was added. The only reason to desactived it in V9 is to gain some FPS (or your card doesn't support shaders).With it activated, there's no pop up at all. The only problem with V9 is the limited visibility and the lack of a true horizon. All these problems seem fixed, and far landscape looks very nice in V10 screenshots.Could you please point to a picture where you suspect pop up mountains in V10 ?

Volumetric fog blurs images whereas real fog tends to cover them completely.

I don't know where you see some blur effect. Volumetric fog makes the color/texture of far mountains degrade to white or grey. It should be a bit more blueish to be realistic, which seems fixed in V10.

Yes, that's why volumetric fog was added. The only reason to desactived it in V9 is to gain some FPS (or your card doesn't support shaders).With it activated, there's no pop up at all. The only problem with V9 is the limited visibility and the lack of a true horizon. All these problems seem fixed, and far landscape looks very nice in V10 screenshots.Could you please point to a picture where you suspect pop up mountains in V10 ?I don't know where you see some blur effect. Volumetric fog makes the color/texture of far mountains degrade to white or grey. It should be a bit more blueish to be realistic, which seems fixed in V10.

Volumetric fog is a way of hiding a graphical flaw and should not have been added. It is activated as the game does not support high distance viewing options. I mean, some days are not foggy right? Limited visibility in 2011? what next, a ps1 version? Problems are not fixed as the fog is still evident.I think we will have to agree to disagree about volumetric fog.

@martyneale ... it's probably best to reserve judgment until after 10.0 is released. Ranting about one single screenshot from an alpha build seems grossly unfair at this point.

if volumetric fog is in the game all is lost.

I think we will have to agree to disagree about volumetric fog.

Disagree on what ? Do you still see mountains pop up through the fog ? Is it the name which bothers you ? You can call it "haze" if you want, the word would be more correct for the effect.I suspect you see some blur caused by jpg compression.Ok I change my post as you add to yours:

Volumetric fog is a way of hiding a graphical flaw and should not have been added. It is activated as the game does not support high distance viewing options. I mean, some days are not foggy right? Limited visibility in 2011? what next, a ps1 version? Problems are not fixed as the fog is still evident.

You seem to ignore the effect that is called "atmospheric perspective". This has been first discovered by renaissance painters. Even when the air is pure and tranparent, landscape loses contrast with the distance and its colors shift to blue. The good visibility just scales the effect on a larger distance.Now as I said, short visibility in V9 is a problem. But it has been extended to 100 NM (this has yet to be confirmed), and even when weather is clear, at that distance, no mountain (from any part of the world) will show you the same details and colors as some terrain 10 miles away.Air is a transparent environment, and scatters light in the same way as other transparent materials like water and glass, just through bigger depths.

if volumetric fog is in the game all is lost.

Now that's an argument ! Hard to beat !

Disagree on what ? Do you still see mountains pop up through the fog ? Is it the name which bothers you ? You can call it "haze" if you want, the word would be more correct for the effect.I suspect you see some blur caused by jpg compression.Ok I change my post as you add to yours:You seem to ignore the effect that is called "atmospheric perspective". This has been first discovered by renaissance painters. Even when the air is pure and tranparent, landscape loses contrast with the distance and its colors shift to blue. The good visibility just scales the effect on a larger distance.Now as I said, short visibility in V9 is a problem. But it has been extended to 100 NM (this has yet to be confirmed), and even when weather is clear, at that distance, no mountain (from any part of the world) will show you the same details and colors as some terrain 10 miles away.Air is a transparent environment, and scatters light in the same way as other transparent materials like water and glass, just through bigger depths.

there is no need to be an apologist for x plane! Just admit the game is seriously flawed and 100nm is unlikely. I have no problem with fog - but trying to suggest fog is haze is simply absurd. Like saying cloud is cotton wool. Name other flying games with volumetric fog if it is so great?

Mister "I know better than you", I would advise you to stay calm in this discussion.I told you the "fog" effect in X-plane is better named "haze". Because the effect is more akin to "haze". I think your just confused by the name. Now some pictures:fog or haze?http://farm1.static...._cedf4e2a7e.jpgcontrast lost and color shift to blue:http://desktopwp.com.../swiss_alps.jpgrather good visibility there:http://upload.wikime.../Alps_Plane.jpgI suggest that you look through the window the next time you travel by plane. At high altitude, I'm always chocked to see how far I can see the clouds but how bland and undistinct the ground is, just a few miles away.

Just admit the game is seriously flawed and 100nm is unlikely

So, you know that a month and a half before XP 10 is out. Looks like you are severely biased. Too much for a reasonable exchange.

I have no problem with fog

On the contrary, I'm sure you do...it's called astigmatism.

Volumetric fog is a way of hiding a graphical flaw and should not have been added. It is activated as the game does not support high distance viewing options. I mean, some days are not foggy right? Limited visibility in 2011? what next, a ps1 version? Problems are not fixed as the fog is still evident.I think we will have to agree to disagree about volumetric fog.if volumetric fog is in the game all is lost.

If you think it's that bad then don't buy it !!! Good bye !!!

Here is a newer image dated Nov 10th, I really like how you can still see the details of the mountains in the far distance, their textures still retain their crispness.

On the contrary, I'm sure you do...it's called astigmatism.

Right I can't see much in x plane with the fog off which is a real blessing as i've heard that mountains pop up out of nowhere.

Mister "I know better than you", I would advise you to stay calm in this discussion.I told you the "fog" effect in X-plane is better named "haze". Because the effect is more akin to "haze". I think your just confused by the name. Now some pictures:fog or haze?http://farm1.static...._cedf4e2a7e.jpgcontrast lost and color shift to blue:http://desktopwp.com.../swiss_alps.jpgrather good visibility there:http://upload.wikime.../Alps_Plane.jpgI suggest that you look through the window the next time you travel by plane. At high altitude, I'm always chocked to see how far I can see the clouds but how bland and undistinct the ground is, just a few miles away.So, you know that a month and a half before XP 10 is out. Looks like you are severely biased. Too much for a reasonable exchange.

Obviously real images - compare those to x plane and particularly x plane in motion from a jet. msfs for all its faults does viewing distance well.

Here is a newer image dated Nov 10th, I really like how you can still see the details of the mountains in the far distance, their textures still retain their crispness.

far too low to tell anything - x plane in motion will dispel my suspicions or prove them irrevocably.

If you think it's that bad then don't buy it !!! Good bye !!!

don't like the truth?

Don't feed the trolls, carrotroot.

Don't feed the trolls, carrotroot.

you are way to old you use the troll word