Seriously, a fairytale? Well, than I guess that would explain why you don't feel that there is anything wrong with this sim at all. You feel that everything that is lacking from it is just a fairytale. Well, than I guess I live in fairytale land, because just about every sim in the past 10 years, except XPX has had these things.

No, but the problem with seasons is that they don't follow as well to the calendar as obviously some people believe. Perhaps you should take a look how nature itself behaves and not look at what a computer program believes...It would be great if the programs would be able to really simulate reality, but they are very far from reality and it gets really complicated if you would want to implement it correctly. But if it doesn't work anyway, I don't see any sense in implementing it!In my opinion the behaviour of FSX is wrong, so why should X-Plane implement it?

So yes we will defend it from ignorance and "first impression" rants like yours which are counter productive, demotivating,intentionally exaggerated and unfair to a community...

I'm an X-Plane newbie, but these are my sentiments exactly. I welcome reasoned discussion, not uninformed, knee-jerk rants.

No, but the problem with seasons is that they son't follow as well to the calendar as obviously some people believe. Perhaps you should take a look how nature itself behaves and not look at what a computer program believes...It would be great if the programs would be able to really simulate reality, but they are very far from reality and it gets really complicated if you would want implement it correctly. But if it doesn't work anyway I don't see any sense in implementing it!

For example, if I were to load up FSX right now at my home airport, it would depict snow across the landscape despite it being 40 degrees outside with not a single flake of snow in the entire state. I'm not saying this is better or worse but that presently, the end result is artificial whether a sim has seasonal textures or not.

This FSX stereotype lover statement I keep seeing shows me you must not know much about FSX and it's history. When it was released the critics of it make what is going on here occasionally with Xplane look like nothing! The critics were viscious , and non ending. True, some of them were unfounded, many were a lack of vision for what the future could hold, many were made on short term usage,but most importantly-many caused significant changes to the sim not only from the manufacturer, but from add in developers that made the sim better. There are still countless critics of the sim even today-just check the FSX forums presently. If you really think the critics here are unique to Xplane-then I would submit you have not been using other sims-or at least paying attention to their forums, both past or present....and again-fight the critics not by attacking the critics-or labeling them as something-but respond to their points. Admit when their critics are correct, and point out the strengths of the sim they have missed. Seems to me if Xplane wants to join the big time, then it better accept what the big time brings...all of it.

This FSX stereotype lover statement I keep seeing shows me you must not know much about FSX and it's history.

I was there for the early days of FSX, and I was just as impatient with uninformed rants then as I am now.

If you were there I am sure you will agree that being impatient is fine-but labelling others as a camp, or attacking them instead of their points never really accomplishes anything, but adds fuel to the fire, and ultimately dimishes credibility.

For example, if I were to load up FSX right now at my home airport, it would depict snow across the landscape despite it being 40 degrees outside with not a single flake of snow in the entire state. I'm not saying this is better or worse but that presently, the end result is artificial whether a sim has seasonal textures or not.

IMO............this just isn't one you can defend. XP needs seasons!It's true, If I fire up my home airport today, which is in the Rocky Mtn. area, then FSX is going to show snow on the ground. I just checked it out. Last year, we had too much snow. This year, we'll set a record for too little. FSX can't decide that yesterday was 60 degrees, and the snow has melted.But on the other hand, I have years worth of screen shots & saved flights, in which FSX portrays varying amounts of snow over the mountains and landscape, which looks very real. Examples, such as changing from winter to spring, in which the mountains still have snow & the valleys are turning to shades of green, look great. Same for autumn.L.Adamson

If you were there I am sure you will agree that being impatient is fine-but labelling others as a camp, or attacking them instead of their points never really accomplishes anything, but adds fuel to the fire, and ultimately dimishes credibility.

I don't necessarily agree. There is value in exposing someone's biases and agendas apart from any points they may have raised, so there are times it is warranted to do both.

IMO............this just isn't one you can defend. XP needs seasons!

I guess this is just one of those features I don't really care about.

Well in this thread at least I keep seeing you and one other make the compares to fsx-either being in its camp or feature wise.I don't see anyone else doing it.Re: seasons-instead of flawing fsx stating that sometimes it puts snow out when there shouldn't be anyWhy not just admit-xplane doesn't do seasons presently! Whew-that was actually easy... Even admit that if flying over 4 seasons simulated on a sim is all important to the simmer maybe xplane is not for you right now (that was easy too)! Then maybe talk about some of the reasons xplane keeps you there -even without the seasons-much more pursuavive in my opinion. I can name some-more realistic takeoffs/landings in a Ga aircraft, great weather downloads with a real overcast, nice high res textures that never blurr, great systems failures-many, many others-and yes many of them are not done in any sim presently...and by the way-I have never flown any sim in any season but summer. I've lived 31 years in Michigan-I hate winter, I can't wait to get out of it, and I hate seeing snow from the plane-both rw when I am scraping it off the hangar,pre heating, and flying over it-I just don't like snow (I do like fall/spring flying but so far it doesn't look very realisitc on any sim to me-summer always seems to look the best). However, for some people seeing 4 seasons is all important-as is seeing a few rw objects that makes them imagine they are someplace different. Different strokes for different folks....and if they try xplane and report they are disapointed not to see these things-their right, their opinion, and perhaps the developers at some point will see enough market share wants these things and will add them-an all win situation.

True, some of them were unfounded, many were a lack of vision for what the future could hold, many were made on short term usage,but most importantly-many caused significant changes to the sim not only from the manufacturer, but from add in developers that made the sim better.

Exactly. That's the reason why I said that in my opinion every new flight simulator has a long beta phase. To be precise in my opinion Xplane 10 made really one big mistake: They didn't stress the word Beta sufficiently enough or they even dropped it in their press releases. That's bad. In my opinion Aerosoft made a much better job. They always stressed that their additional airports will be a normal part of the finished product that will be released next year but for this preliminary release they were only a part of their box.While I am not a games developer I am a software developer my self and if I look at the comments of the real developers, in my opinion it is obvious that they are in normal beta mode. The tools and fiunctions are starting to form a unit and everything goes as planned.That's totally normal. It would even be normal to get some of the later users and sales people into the project at this time to get feedback. In.And a lot of their comments make totally sense The know that they will need a large number of additional textures but in its foundation its starting to work. And that's exactly the feeling I get. But at this stage my company wouldn't even comment about the new features of the next release or even talk about a release date...My personal guess would be that they would need six months for something that really starts to look like the finished version and perhaps a year or more till they really have a solid foundation.The only thing that didn't fit into this was the release date that the normal public heard. In my opion the product is unfit for the general public but it is in a state where you can start to get familiar with the program, if you are interested. Since they depend on the community support I have no problems with this early release for such people I didn't expect more than a beta and that's what I got. But I have a real problem with the marketing that didn't stress beta sufficiently.I understand that they originally wanted to release this title 2011, but such delays are normal. Nobody can really know before how long a feature will need to grow. I don't know any developer time tables that hold till the ink is dry. Some features work much easier than originally thought, while other simple things become a real rollercoaster.And to get back to the seasons:No, I don't really think that htey need seasons. If I look outside I see a really confusing site. Many plants simply didn't saw the reason why they should drop their leafs till now. They simply dropped autumn instead several plants decided to bloom in October...The plants were not crazy they simply watched the weather. And if I look at the meteorolical data of my city, we have many winters with not more than 10 days of snow in the whole year, although the last few winters were a real exception with several months of heavy snow and ice.If you really want to simzulate the seasons you must be ready to paint beautiful textures that won't be really used. And you have to omplement a weather system that works all the time for every single location. The weather can be totally different a few kilometers away. Iknow several years ago we were sent skiiing by our school. We went to the bus in T-Shirts and when we arrived at the target location they had more than two meters of snow... Such a season handling would be great. But the season handling of FSX has nothing to do with such things.In reality such seasons would very easy to implement. The program only flips the real target texture according to the date.You only need the additional textures, nothing more. Areally insignificant change in the autogen. The really big problem are the additional costs.The only people who have to do the real work are the texture guys that have to draw these textures. In my opinion this is a very small gimick that only costs money and makes much more work. It would be at the end of a very long feature list.So I would totally understand if they would simply say: No seasons, but in reality this is nothing that you would be able tosee right now. There is a huge number of objects taht are really missing, like big buildings, and a lot of different buildings for the whole world. These are really big problems.I would even think that a lot of scery designers would opt against seasons. It seems that a lot of you don't know Aerosoft. Several of their big projects dind't use seasons anyway and yes, I am talking about FSX! At the moment, where scenery designers really have think If they should support X-Plane 10 this could really be the nail in the coffin. It costs their time but would people be really ready to pay more for their scenery? And it looks really stupid if one object has summer while the rest of the world has winter.

In addition, there is a huge commercial FS industry present in this forum that has financial interests in X-Plane NOT succeedingsince they have large investments in FS that will get lost if the users jump ship. So some here also have an agenda.

I admit my glasses are very old and I need to get new ones, so I might have missed the attack(s) by the FS payware group. Could you refer me back to that part of the thread, forum, wherever?Changing directions...Despite the great advances in medicine, they've yet to find a cure for S-T-U-P-I-D. And I really wish they would spend more time on this cure. Until they do, people will come here, or they will go the the Flight forum, or they will go to the FSX forum and show the world how badly this medical condition affects their ability to post. While I look forward to the release of Flight in 2012, I shudder at the thoughts of the outbreak in stupidity that will follow. There was a massive outbreak after FSX's release and it seems only in the past year or so that it's been brought under control. But there are and will be scattered instances of people showing signs of stupidity.The X-Plane users can try to deal with the outbreak here or they can figure out that the best approach (IMO) is to ignore the poster's symptoms and re-focus their attentions of people who want to be educated. I happen to like photo-based scenery to fly low-and-slow over. I've seen at the X-Plane site what the developer thinks of photo scenery. That's a shame, but then I recall that you can't cure STUPID... :(

Re: seasons-instead of flawing fsx stating that sometimes it puts snow out when there shouldn't be any

You didn't read very carefully. I simply pointed out what a competing sim does without making any judgments about it (I even explicitly stated that "I'm not saying this is better or worse"). It's a useful point of comparison and was offered in response to what another poster said about the inherent artificiality of the simulated world.Ironically, it seems you're the only one trying to fan the flame of FSX vs XP when all I've offered is a dispassionate comparison.

Why not just admit-xplane doesn't do seasons presently! Whew-that was actually easy... Even admit that if flying over 4 seasons simulated on a sim is all important to the simmer maybe xplane is not for you right now (that was easy too)! Then maybe talk about some of the reasons xplane keeps you there -even without the seasons-much more pursuavive in my opinion. I can name some-more realistic takeoffs/landings in a Ga aircraft, great weather downloads with a real overcast, nice high res textures that never blurr, great systems failures-many, many others-and yes many of them are not done in any sim presently.

Well then you can feel free to contribute those points to the discussion (as you have). I offer a reasoned opinion, you offer a reasoned opinion and possibly some counterpoints, and we all have a nice conversation. Isn't that easy? :(

I suggest you read the thread again....and how and when fsx was referenced...and while doing that -check out this thread posted today in the fs9 forum:http://forum.avsim.n...__fromsearch__1If a thread with that title was posted in this forum would the poster be:1) accused of being an fsx/xplane troll?2) accused of being a developer trying to squash fs9?or simply a user making an observation of how a sim in his perception is....and this one a 7 year old sim...Because I repeat-these posts go on all day in all forums with all sims....and then you might want to read this thread:http://forum.avsim.n...__fromsearch__1

I suggest you read the thread again....and how and when fsx was referenced.

You seem intent on fanning the flames. Sorry, but I'm not biting.As for how and when FSX was first referenced, try this post. I wasn't the one to bring it up like you're implying. :(

The posts all stand in their glory MM.

You seem intent on fanning the flames. Sorry, but I'm not biting.

IT'S ABOUT TIME !